Rift Growing RAPIDLY Between Pakistan and US.....

[Warthogg]

A guy I respect and is not heard from very often these days, Mansoor Ijaz, just on Cavuto says coup increasingly possible.

Pakistan military and ISI just may have known of our raid but civilian government apparently knew nothing.

General in charge of the ISI just flew out of Pakistan.



Wart

[mriddick]

Reports are they just arrested 40 people in the gov't that knew of where osama was. Could it be the general left because his private number was on one of osama's cell phones? I would bet many in the gov't are quite scared of the information the Seal took with them.

I would think if planning a coup you wouldn't see the General in charge of the ISI leaving. The ISI was considered closer to the taliban and alqueada then the military.

[Warthogg]

I would think if planning a coup you wouldn't see the General in charge of the ISI leaving.

Plus Mansoor thinks the general may be heading for the US.

The CIA station cheif was called in and his ass reamed for maybe 10 minutes and he was not invited to give rebutal.

Pakistan is big pissed we had set-up a spy operation right under their nose.


Wart

[Dan Morris]

Well, cut several billion in foreign aid and pull the troops n operants home........
they got caught. So, quit kissing ass!
Dan

[TEN-32]

Maybe we should firm up economic ties with their arch enemy India.

[Sergi762]

Maybe we should firm up economic ties with their arch enemy India.

Lord the money we could make but doing just that! The market there is incredible and they are developing ;we get in and we grow as well.

[TEN-32]

Lord the money we could make but doing just that! The market there is incredible and they are developing ;we get in and we grow as well.

Make profits rather than give away aid. What a concept.

[weevil]

We're already a much closer ally of India than we are Pakistan. Don't forget the Indians are also hated enemies of China.


The only reason we've been sucking up to Pakistan is so we can use them as a staging area for Afghanistan.

[old Grump]

We're already a much closer ally of India than we are Pakistan. Don't forget the Indians are also hated enemies of China.


The only reason we've been sucking up to Pakistan is so we can use them as a staging area for Afghanistan.
No we suck up tp Pakistan because they have nuclear weapons.

[blobman]

what grump said ,we gotta tread lightly with a nucleur power

[weevil]

No we suck up tp Pakistan because they have nuclear weapons.


So does India.

[old Grump]

So does India.
India has a higher rate of literacy, religious tolerance is higher, women are freer, rate of technicians and engineers graduating from their universities is higher than ours, they are a space race contender and in spite of the size of their population and the problems with feeding everybody due to drought they are more stable than Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons, villages, warlords and radical Imams. I'll put my money on India as an ally, on Pakistan I have a jaundiced and wary eye.

[weevil]

India has a higher rate of literacy, religious tolerance is higher, women are freer, rate of technicians and engineers graduating from their universities is higher than ours, they are a space race contender and in spite of the size of their population and the problems with feeding everybody due to drought they are more stable than Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons, villages, warlords and radical Imams. I'll put my money on India as an ally, on Pakistan I have a jaundiced and wary eye.


Yes I agree completely.


I still say the main reason we are even trying to pretend we give a shit about Pakistan is because they have a border with Afghanistan.

Yeah they are a nuclear power but why should we really care?

Other than India who are they gonna use them against?


Yeah I suppose terrorists might get them and smuggle one into the US but what's stopping that now?

Our alliance with Pakistan?

[Bluntforce]

Pakistan supposedly has nuke capable subs. With that they can hit anyone.

[Warthogg]

Originally Posted by weevil

We're already a much closer ally of India than we are Pakistan. Don't forget the Indians are also hated enemies of China.


The only reason we've been sucking up to Pakistan is so we can use them as a staging area for Afghanistan.



No we suck up tp Pakistan because they have nuclear weapons.

oG, we SHOULD suck-up because of nukes but we are not that smart.

I am (FORCED) to agree with a Colorado weevil.



Wart

[Warthogg]

It (Pakistan) has also announced the number of American troops in the country is to be slashed to the "minimum essential" level.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Article/201105115986150







Wart

[Schuetzenman]

India has a higher rate of literacy, religious tolerance is higher, women are freer, rate of technicians and engineers graduating from their universities is higher than ours, they are a space race contender and in spite of the size of their population and the problems with feeding everybody due to drought they are more stable than Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons, villages, warlords and radical Imams. I'll put my money on India as an ally, on Pakistan I have a jaundiced and wary eye.

India is India's friend mostly. At least around 2000 they voted 85% of the time against the US in the UN.

[old Grump]

India tried to get closer with us but we snubbed them. They offered to share technology and facilities for our space program and we snubbed them. The Soviet Union on the other hand accepted India's offer for trade and tech exchange. Sometimes our xenophobia which we accuse France and Japan of being makes us our own worst enemies. If there is one single country in the world we should be best friends with it is India.

Pakistan can stick with their poppies and their unwashed unholy religion. We got Osama now let us get the hell out of there.

[insider]

Fuck Pakistan, the Indians need to wipe them out. Nuclear weapons? Ha Ha Ha! One Ohio class sub has more firepower than all of Pakistan. They knew about Osama, now they need to pay for their crimes.

[Schuetzenman]

India tried to get closer with us but we snubbed them. They offered to share technology and facilities for our space program and we snubbed them. The Soviet Union on the other hand accepted India's offer for trade and tech exchange. Sometimes our xenophobia which we accuse France and Japan of being makes us our own worst enemies. If there is one single country in the world we should be best friends with it is India.

Pakistan can stick with their poppies and their unwashed unholy religion. We got Osama now let us get the hell out of there.
India hasn't got any tech we proabably didn't know about 20 years ago. To partner with them would be a 1 way street, they would get a bunch of stuff they are decades behind on and they would offer us Jack and Shit. Which frankly surprises me that the US didn't go for it, they seem to be in that "let's give it all away" groove usually.

[Warthogg]

India is India's friend mostly.

Yes, that's the way things work for smart countries. Smart countries have alliances and not friends.

The smartest countries, like Israel, have beneficial alliances.
The dumbest, like the US, have harmful alliances.


Wart

[O.S.O.K.]

IMHO we are in no positition at this time to be supplying other countries with "aid".

We should cut-off all foriegn aid - friend or foe and cite our current debt as the reason but conveninetly, never go back to providing any.

This would strengthen the dollar IMHO and would send a message that we are through being the world's "salvation army".

95% of the recipients of our generosity turn aournd and fuck us the first opportunity that they get that's better for them. Screw the piss-ant fuckers.

Further, I think we should close all non-essential military bases the world over and bring the troops home. Establish new bases all along our southern border and give each a section of border for their security zone.

Anybody that would want to try and enter our country ilegally would have to get through a military base defense zone...

The displaced ranchers and such would be compensated at a fair market rate plus some for their trouble. Perhaps offered some BLM land in exchange to reduce the amount of cash outlay needed.

I am tired as fuck of these pukes that can't solve problems.

This is the main thing about Herman Caine that I like - he has a solution path for every challenge that is presented to him.

That's what we need - not posturing, positioning, blathering, etc. that we are getting now.

[mriddick]

About .07% of the budget directly goes overseas in foreign aid. I think we ought to cut off the aid but to sell it as cutting the budget to any great degree or shoring up the dollar is an over statement.

[blacksheep]

IMHO we are in no positition at this time to be supplying other countries with "aid".

We should cut-off all foriegn aid - friend or foe and cite our current debt as the reason but conveninetly, never go back to providing any.

This would strengthen the dollar IMHO and would send a message that we are through being the world's "salvation army".

95% of the recipients of our generosity turn aournd and fuck us the first opportunity that they get that's better for them. Screw the piss-ant fuckers.

Further, I think we should close all non-essential military bases the world over and bring the troops home. Establish new bases all along our southern border and give each a section of border for their security zone.

Anybody that would want to try and enter our country ilegally would have to get through a military base defense zone...

The displaced ranchers and such would be compensated at a fair market rate plus some for their trouble. Perhaps offered some BLM land in exchange to reduce the amount of cash outlay needed.

I am tired as fuck of these pukes that can't solve problems.

This is the main thing about Herman Caine that I like - he has a solution path for every challenge that is presented to him.

That's what we need - not posturing, positioning, blathering, etc. that we are getting now.

Exactly what needs to done.:thumbspbig:

[Warthogg]

IMHO we are in no positition at this time to be supplying other countries with "aid".

We should cut-off all foriegn aid - friend or foe and cite our current debt as the reason but conveninetly, never go back to providing any.

This would strengthen the dollar IMHO and would send a message that we are through being the world's "salvation army".

95% of the recipients of our generosity turn aournd and fuck us the first opportunity that they get that's better for them. Screw the piss-ant fuckers.

Further, I think we should close all non-essential military bases the world over and bring the troops home. Establish new bases all along our southern border and give each a section of border for their security zone.

Anybody that would want to try and enter our country ilegally would have to get through a military base defense zone...

The displaced ranchers and such would be compensated at a fair market rate plus some for their trouble. Perhaps offered some BLM land in exchange to reduce the amount of cash outlay needed.

I am tired as fuck of these pukes that can't solve problems.

This is the main thing about Herman Caine that I like - he has a solution path for every challenge that is presented to him.

That's what we need - not posturing, positioning, blathering, etc. that we are getting now.


This is the main thing about Herman Caine that I like - he has a solution path for every challenge that is presented to him


Caine..... part of the problem he is to solve.

The Federal Reserve Bank, The World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, foreign aid, political slush funds like Bush's TARP, numerous unneeded military bases, QE1, QE2........no way I can name even 5% of the ways the American taxpayer is fucked.

Congress is where the massive clean-up would have to start. Won't happen. Some of us here actually believe Boehner will do something.


I am tired as fuck of these pukes that can't solve problems.

We have had Dims and Rethugs in charge of congress. We still run massive deficits. Ask yourself this ONE question. Why do we run massive deficits ? The answer is both parties want to run massive deficits.

We may be so far gone that nothing will work. I don't know for sure. However, I do know this for sure, nothing of substance will be done.



Wart

[JTHunter]

O.S.O.K. -
DITTO!!

[mriddick]

We have had Dims and Rethugs in charge of congress. We still run massive deficits. Ask yourself this ONE question. Why do we run massive deficits ? The answer is both parties want to run massive deficits.

They do what the people want. We want retirements paid for without paying for them, we want medical care without paying for it. We want the best military without paying for it. If you're not in the top 20% (that's a guess it could be the top 3-5%) of wage earners you are (or will) suck down more tax dollars then you contribute. It's really time we all start to understand that the vast majority of Americans will take more then they give and very few seem willing to give up anything they get and even fewer want to give. It's what we demand of those we elect and it's what they give us.

[old Grump]

Public enemy number one. You thought it was Osama bin Laden but all the time it was Ben Bernanke and before him it was Alan Greenspan. Throw in a few hundred legislators hungry for power not service and who no longer know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy.

I'm telling you we need to vote them all out, every last one. Anybody who has ever called himself Democrat or Republican while in office has no place in Washington DC because they are NOT looking out for our interests. Just dos centavos from a dinosaur.

[Warthogg]

They do what the people want. We want retirements paid for without paying for them, we want medical care without paying for it. We want the best military without paying for it. If you're not in the top 20% (that's a guess it could be the top 3-5%) of wage earners you are (or will) suck down more tax dollars then you contribute. It's really time we all start to understand that the vast majority of Americans will take more then they give and very few seem willing to give up anything they get and even fewer want to give. It's what we demand of those we elect and it's what they give us.

You are saying our system of government no longer works. Correct of course.
\

Wart

[Warthogg]

Public enemy number one. You thought it was Osama bin Laden but all the time it was Ben Bernanke and before him it was Alan Greenspan. Throw in a few hundred legislators hungry for power not service and who no longer know the difference between a Republic and a Democracy.

I'm telling you we need to vote them all out, every last one. Anybody who has ever called himself Democrat or Republican while in office has no place in Washington DC because they are NOT looking out for our interests. Just dos centavos from a dinosaur.

There is a stained glass window from the offices of the Fabian Socialsits depicting a wolf in sheep's clothing.


In April of 2006, the window was officially unvieled by a ceremony attended by British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who is a member of the Fabian Society


Wart

[Warthogg]

The Fabians originally were an elite group of intellectuals who formed a semi-secret society for the purpose of bringing socialism to the world.

Whereas Communists wanted to establish socialism quickly through violence and revolution, the Fabians preferred to do it slowly through propaganda and legislation. The word socialism was not to be used. Instead, they would speak of benefits for the people such as welfare, medical care, higher wages, and better working conditions. In this way, they planned to accomplish their objective without bloodshed and even without serious opposition.

They scorned the Communists, not because they disliked their goals, but because they disagreed with their methods. To emphasize the importance of gradualism, they adopted the turtle as the symbol of their movement. The three most prominent leaders in the early days were Sidney and Beatrice Webb and George Bernard Shaw. [2] A stained-glass window from the Beatrice Webb House in Surrey, England is especially enlightening. Across the top appears the last line from Omar Khayyam:

Dear love, couldst thou and I with fate conspire
To grasp this sorry scheme of things entire,
Would we not shatter it to bits, and then
Remould it nearer to the heart's desire!

Beneath the line Remould it nearer to the heart's desire, the mural depicts Shaw and Webb striking the earth with hammers. Across the bottom, the masses kneel in worship of a stack of books advocating the theories of socialism. Thumbing his nose at the docile masses is H.G. Wells who, after quitting the Fabians, denounced them as "the new machiavellians." The most revealing component, however, is the Fabian crest which appears Between Shaw and Webb. It is a wolf in sheep's clothing!



Wart

[Oswald Bastable]

India hasn't got any tech we proabably didn't know about 20 years ago. To partner with them would be a 1 way street, they would get a bunch of stuff they are decades behind on and they would offer us Jack and Shit. Which frankly surprises me that the US didn't go for it, they seem to be in that "let's give it all away" groove usually.

Have to agree here. Last company I worked for (small family owned software company...property management software) farmed some work out to Indian programmers. I think the owner thought he was saving money outsourcing, rather than hiring programmers here to do the work. Long story short, much money laid out for work done overseas, nothing usable when all was said and done. Course I could have told the owner that up front...what the fuck do a bunch of Hadjis know about real estate, property and it's management/laws/rules in the US? Not that they couldn't learn or understand it, just that the likelihood they'd know without serious research (including close, personal, in country inspection and examination) was probably not gonna happen without some serious financial investment...as in more than hiring programmers locally.

As the saying goes: you can have it cheap, fast or right...pick two.

[mriddick]

You are saying our system of government no longer works. Correct of course.
\

Wart

I would not say it no longer works, only that the people want more then are willing to admit. It's foolish to complain about foreign aid and the like, acting as if cutting .07% of the budget is a big deal. The problem is no one here admits they will be a taker from the government. We all want to feel as if we are paying our way when in fact very (VERY) few are. We take more then we give. It's not our government it's the people. We need to realize that if we want so much we'd better pay for it.

The present tax system is about out of gas, you can't simply keep going to the well of income tax, it's a tax on working and doing the right thing. The fair tax sounds good but I bet in running the numbers we'd need a tax closer to 40% then the 11, 15 or 22% you hear so often. Who knows maybe it is time for a VAT...

[Warthogg]

I would not say it no longer works, only that the people want more then are willing to admit. It's foolish to complain about foreign aid and the like, acting as if cutting .07% of the budget is a big deal. The problem is no one here admits they will be a taker from the government. We all want to feel as if we are paying our way when in fact very (VERY) few are. We take more then we give. It's not our government it's the people. We need to realize that if we want so much we'd better pay for it.

The present tax system is about out of gas, you can't simply keep going to the well of income tax, it's a tax on working and doing the right thing. The fair tax sounds good but I bet in running the numbers we'd need a tax closer to 40% then the 11, 15 or 22% you hear so often. Who knows maybe it is time for a VAT...


I would not say it no longer works, only that the people want more then are willing to admit.

Then I will say it. The American system of government no longer works.


It's foolish to complain about foreign aid and the like, acting as if cutting .07% of the budget is a big deal.

Like treating a broken vein in the back of your hand while ignoring a couple of severed arteries.

The instincts of the people who sense something smells in our giving to foreign countries is not wrong only that the huge money is camoflouged through the World Bank, IMF, etc., etc. Certainly the .gov would never show those dollars in a foreign aid budget for all to see and understand.


The problem is no one here admits they will be a taker from the government.

I just do not see the above as 'the problem' or even a problem.


It's not our government it's the people.

In that a representative democracy requires an engaged and informed electorate to function properly.....yes.


The fair tax sounds good but I bet in running the numbers we'd need a tax closer to 40% then the 11, 15 or 22% you hear so often. Who knows maybe it is time for a VAT

National sales tax, VAT....whatever we need a system where the vast underground economy pays. The higher the income taxes the more the economy moves below ground. Applicable to every country on the planet.


Wart

[mrkalashnikov]

The only real reason for partnering with India vs Pakistan I can see is that they are emerging as a potential superpower in the 21st Century. They could also become a huge market for American-manufactured goods and services, on top of the additional bonus they hate muslims more than we do.

[weevil]

The only real reason for partnering with India vs Pakistan I can see is that they are emerging as a potential superpower in the 21st Century. They could also become a huge market for American-manufactured goods and services, on top of the additional bonus they hate muslims more than we do.



There are also a hated enemy of the Chinese and went to war with China back in the '60s.


They are a good counter-balance to China's power and influence in Asia, and a potential staging area that's far more reliable than Pakistan, if we do ever go to war with China.

[samiam]

if there's a country we need to go to war with it's Mexico but that asshole GW Bush couldn't see the reality of it . . . but cocaine has that effect on a person

[old Grump]

Not Mexico but with the criminals, the Cartels. The majority of Mexicans are just hard working blue collar people trying to make a living and take care of their families like we are. There is a huge gap between the two classes. Money and drugs and we are customers of one and provide the other. Problem goes back a lot farther than Bush, either Bush.

[Warthogg]

They are a good counter-balance to China's power and influence in Asia, and a potential staging area that's far more reliable than Pakistan, if we do ever go to war with China.

And who is the counter-balance to China in Africa ??


Wart

[weevil]

And who is the counter-balance to China in Africa ??


Wart




Nobody really wants to be in Africa, it's a horrible place.


If China wants to try their hand there more power to them.


Asia is far more important on the world stage and far less volatile than the chaos we call Africa.

[Warthogg]

Nobody really wants to be in Africa, it's a horrible place.


If China wants to try their hand there more power to them.


Asia is far more important on the world stage and far less volatile than the chaos we call Africa.

You are smarter than this post weevil. Rethink.



Wart

[weevil]

You are smarter than this post weevil. Rethink.



Wart


Seriously what is the strategic advantage of Africa?


Oh maybe Egypt and to a lesser extent North Africa but economically it's going to drag down anyone who invests there.

Any investestment is going to be risky as the govts are horribly unstable and even the more stable ones are incredibly corrupt and inept.

Yeah there's a lot of mineral wealth to be had but considering the circumstances making a profit off of it is no easy task.

And militarily other than the regions mentioned what strategic value does any of it have?


The problem with Africa is the costs of obtaining, holding, and defending your investments economic or military outweigh whatever potential gains you might get.


Africa is going to be a drain on any nation that tries to make a meaningful presence there.


There are other more strategically important regions where a nations resources could be better spent.