Epa going after lead ammo?

[American Rage]

Due to the recent copyright lawsuits, I will no longer post articles from other sources. However, here's a link to the article.

Rage

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/economy/groups-urges-epa-to-ban-lead-ammunition-fishing-tackle-99870914.html

[mriddick]

They have been since the 1980's.

[imanaknut]

Actually I don't see anywhere on the Washington Examiner page that states it can't be copied, and since they allow it to be emailed, don't worry about Copyright issues.
:joker:

Anyway, this is only our wonderful governments attempt to violate the second amendment by banning ammo.

Question, if they do ban lead ammo, are they going to ask that we return every round we have? Could get messy.

[raxar]

personally I've been burying those dangerous lead bullets in special "containment mounds" for years.....

[wrench60]

There is simply no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations that would require restricting or banning the use of traditional ammunition.

Since when did evidence matter? All they need is a theory to get there foot in the door and some judge will grant them what they want. Just look what happened to duck hunters. The US military is already changing from lead ammo as we speak, all it will do is raise the price of ammo.

[justinsaneok]

Well we should give it to them!!!!!! :ohsnap:

[justinsaneok]

Does lead come from the ground or am I crazy. Even if I am we are just putting it back and most of it gets a copper jacket to save the animals so wtf.:gruebel:

[slamfire51]

Does lead come from the ground or am I crazy. Even if I am we are just putting it back and most of it gets a copper jacket to save the animals so wtf.:gruebel:

Lead comes from Uranium. Can't remember the name of the natural process.
Next the Atomic Energy Commission will be regulating lead, bullets, wheel weights, lead batteries, fishing sinkers, lead balloons, and above all, the lead in people's asses.

Damn, we need more control Washington !!!!!!! :loser:

[Meatball]

Hey, it's dug up from the ground, I just return it to the ground...problem?

[Dan Morris]

We go through this lead deal fairly regularly. At my gun club, it was proven that, if you live in a mining state, more stuff leaches from old shafts/tailing dumps etc than is ever put in a burm.JMO
Dan
:wondering:

[Gunreference1]

Groups want EPA to ban use of lead in hunting, fishing equipment

By MICHAEL MILLER, Staff Writer | Posted: Wednesday, August 4, 2010 | 4 comments

Font Size: Default font size Larger font size

Environmental groups on Tuesday petitioned the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to ban the use of lead in fishing tackle and hunting ammunition.

Read the groups' petition to the EPA.

It is already illegal to use lead shot for waterfowl in places such as the Edwin B. Forsythe National Wildlife Refuge. But the groups, which include Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, want to extend this ban to all hunting and fishing.

"Shooting and fishing sports are the biggest lead exposure points to wildlife species," said Jeff Miller, spokesman for the nonprofit Center for Biological Diversity.

The group and several others petitioned the EPA to outlaw lead in fishing tackle - primarily small freshwater sinkers - and in firearms ammunition.

The center said as many as 20 million birds, most of them doves, die each year from consuming lead.

Federal law banned lead shot for duck and goose-hunting in 1991. Several individual reserves or refuges have their own specific rules about the ammunition allowed.

The National Park Service last year planned to ban lead ammo later this year from all types of hunting on its lands.

"Our refuges are already complying with nontoxic shot," said Kevin Holcomb, a biologist at the sprawling Forsythe refuge, which is a year-round haven for ducks and geese. "To reduce the amount of lead in our waters - to reduce the number of birds that ingest lead shot - will help migratory waterfowl."

Holcomb said other refuges have identified environmental problems caused by an abundance of lead from ammunition. This is particularly problematic around shotgun ranges, he said.

"There are other refuges in the U.S. that have seen the effects of lead shot on birds, as well as other wildlife," he said.

Holcomb said that when he worked at the Wallkill River National Wildlife Refuge in Sussex County, hunters were required to use nontoxic pellets in their shotgun cartridges when hunting quail, woodcock and other upland birds.

"As a hunter myself, I know it's more expensive to buy nontoxic shot. But new polymers react similarly to lead shot and it doesn't have the same harmful effect," Holcomb said.

The National Rifle Association, one of the nation's largest hunting advocacy groups, could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

Butch Sacco, owner of Butch's Gun World in Vineland, said the early nontoxic replacements for lead shotgun shells were unpopular with hunters because they had less killing power. As a result, hunters "winged" or merely injured some birds, contrary to the hunting ethos.

The nontoxic shot also was more likely to damage the rifle bore than the softer lead, he said.

Newer polymers are more malleable like lead and are more lethal. And the price came down, too, he said.

But Sacco said he is not convinced lead shot poses the same problem to forest animals as it does to ducks and geese.

"With upland game hunting, you don't have a heavy concentration of lead. There isn't enough lead out there," he said.

The EPA recognizes lead as a toxin - one reason lead was removed from gasoline and paint. Lead poisoning has been a major problem for some species, such as the nearly extinct California condor, said Pete Dunne, director of New Jersey Audubon's Cape May Bird Observatory.

"The condors ingested shards of lead from the carcasses of deer that were shot but not recovered," he said. "The state of California banned the use of lead bullets in the condor's range last year."

The environmental groups also targeted fishing tackle such as lead sinkers that often wind up dropped or lost on snags in creeks, rivers and lakes. Fish sometimes swallow the sinkers and, in turn, get eaten by eagles or ospreys.

Ducks and other waterfowl can eat the tiniest sinkers by mistake while foraging for invertebrates in the mud, Miller said.

Nationwide, 450 million lead fishing sinkers are produced and sold each year in the United States, according to the EPA.

"The weights that are of most concern are those used in freshwater fishing," Miller said. "Most birds that ingest lead weights are trying to find seeds or grit. They're ingesting small sizes."

George Brennan, owner of Brennan Marine Supply in Somers Point, has a large display of lead sinkers ranging in size from a pea to a potato. Shiny and silver in their sorting boxes, the sinkers looked like Christmas ornaments.

Some are as expensive at $3 or more.

Brennan said there was an environmental movement a few years ago to replace lead sinkers with steel ones. But alternative materials have not caught on among manufacturers, he said.

"If the fisherman lost a steel sinker, it would rust away to protect the fish," he said. "They didn't want the fish to eat the lead sinkers."

Brennan said he would welcome other materials, as long as they were as heavy, durable and inexpensive as lead.

"I would love to see something like that," he said. "A sinker that wouldn't hurt the environment."

The EPA has 90 days to review and respond to the petition.

Contact Michael Miller:

609-272-7247

MMiller@pressofac.com

To read the petition: http://www.peer.org/docs/epa/8_3_10_Lead_Ban_Petition.pdf

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/science_nature/press/article_ae05a12b-5e9c-50a6-b678-c9cbce1cf088.html

Steve

[abpt1]

Due to the recent copyright lawsuits, I will no longer post articles from other sources. However, here's a link to the article.

Rage



:tinfoil:

[American Rage]

:tinfoil:

Maybe. But I've heard that they're going after a lot of people. And I see no reason to tempt fate.


Rage

[Mark Ducati]

Maybe we can some Tungsten bullets now :)

[Mac_Muz]

There is simply no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations that would require restricting or banning the use of traditional ammunition.



Tell that to the moles behind my target frame :smile:

[Bluntforce]

Does lead come from the ground or am I crazy. Even if I am we are just putting it back and most of it gets a copper jacket to save the animals so wtf.:gruebel:

Actually quite a bit of it is mined in eastern Oklahoma. It was the main source of lead for the Confederacy. There is probably a lead mine within an hour's drive from you.

Lead quickly develops a coating of rust that seals in all the interesting stuff as it harmlessly oxidizes. If it were a fraction as dangerous as it is reputed to be Europe would have been a wasteland devoid of mammal and fish life long before the eighteenth century from the sheer heaps of lead deposited at ground level during the Thirty Years War.

[Gunreference1]

NSSF Action Alert: Oppose Petition to Ban Traditional Ammunition

Submitted by cbaus on Thu, 08/05/2010 - 15:00.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) -- the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry -- urges you to contact the Environmental Protection Agency to oppose a petition filed August 3 by the extremist Center for Biological Diversity to ban traditional ammunition. Your right to choose the ammunition you hunt and shoot with is at stake.

Express your opposition by calling or e-mailing:

Lisa P. Jackson
Administrator, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20460
(202) 564-4700
Fax: (202) 501-1450
Email: jackson.lisa@epa.gov

And

Steve Owens
Assistant Administrator, Prevention, Pesticides & Toxic Substances U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
1200 Pennsylvania Ave., NW Washington, DC 20460
(202) 564-2902
Fax: (202) 546-0801
Email: Owens.steve@epa.gov

Background:

The National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry, encourages all gun owners, hunters and shooters to oppose the petition filed with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) seeking to ban the use of traditional ammunition containing lead-core components. This ban would apply to ALL ammunition including ammunition used by target shooters.

Filed by several agenda-driven groups including the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD), the petition erroneously claims that the use of traditional ammunition poses a danger to (1) wildlife, in particular raptors such as bald eagles, that may feed on entrails or unrecovered game left in the field and (2) that there is a human health risk from consuming game harvested using traditional ammunition. Also falsely alleged in the petition is that the use of traditional ammunition by hunters is inconsistent with the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976 -- Congress expressly exempted ammunition from being regulated as a "toxic substance."

NSSF urges you to stress the following in your opposition:


There is no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations that would require restricting or banning the use of traditional ammunition beyond current limitations, such as the scientifically based restriction on waterfowl hunting.



Recent statistics from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service showing that from 1981 to 2006 the number of breeding pairs of bald eagles in the United States increased 724 percent. And much like the bald eagle, raptor populations throughout the United States are soaring.



A ban on traditional ammunition would have a serious negative impact on wildlife conservation. The federal excise tax that manufacturers pay on the sale of the ammunition (11 percent) is a primary source of wildlife conservation funding. The bald eagle's recovery, considered to be a great conservation success story, was made possible and funded by hunters using traditional ammunition - the very ammunition organizations like the CBD are now demonizing.


http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7380

Steve

[Gunreference1]

No lead?

By Hasso Hering, Albany Democrat-Herald | Posted: Saturday, August 7, 2010 10:48 pm

The federal Environmental Protection Agency has received a petition to ban lead in hunting ammunition and fishing tackle, and Oregon wildlife officials are watching with some concern.

Also worried are people in the shooting sports.

“This is a serious issue for anyone who likes to target practice, shoot for fun or enjoy hunting, and will be a huge impact on shooting ranges across the nation,” said Mike McCarter, range master of the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club, which maintains a range at Saddle Butte east of Shedd.

“We are energizing our membership to send letters to the EPA in opposition of this petition,” McCarter said in an e-mail.

A coalition of conservation and other groups filed the petition with the EPA in Washington last Tuesday in order, they said, to stop lead from poisoning birds that may ingest the metal in the wild. They say thousands of tons of lead are left in the environment each year from spent bullets and fishing gear such as sinkers, and they say studies have shown harmful efefcts in eagles and other wildlife.

The EPA has 90 days from Tuesday to decide whether to ban the manufacture, processing and distribution in commerce of lead shot, bullets and fishing sinkers.

Opponents say substitute material would raise the price of hunting and fishing equipment, leading to fewer people hunting and fishing and cutting into the money available for wildlife management.

At CNS Firearms in Albany, co-owner Kevin Manske cites one example: A box of 50 rounds of one kind of .223 caliber lead-free ammo retails for $30, compared to about $20 for the same number of the regular kind.

The Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife has been monitoring the issue of lead ammunition for some time, said Roger Fuhrman, administrator of ODFW’s information and education division.

ODFW gets about one-third of its $262 million two-year budget from the sale of hunting and fishing licenses and another third in federal funds from an excise tax on firearms, ammunition and fishing gear.

Fuhrman couldn’t say whether Oregon wildlife had been harmed by ingesting lead from fishing sinkers or bullet fragments left behind in, for instance, the guts of game animals dressed in the field.

Much of the concern over lead ammo, he said, arose in California and Arizona, where giant condors, already nearly extinct, were in danger from feeding on dead game animals containing traces of lead bullets.

California banned the use of lead ammunition for hunting game and other animals, such as coyotes and ground squirrels, in the condor’s range in 2008.

Oregon wildlife officials would prefer that any decisions about lead be made in collaboration with Western wildlife agencies and all other groups affected, according to Fuhrman.

“Somebody needs to take into account the interests of hunters and anglers,” he said.

The Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies has just adopted a resolution calling for more work on the lead issue.

“Any proposed transition to non-lead ammunition or fishing tackle is likely to be difficult, costly and confusing for hunters, anglers, retailers and manufacturers,” the association said.

The groups that petitioned the EPA for the lead ban are the American Bird Conservancy, the Center for Biological Diversity, the Association of Avian Veterinarians, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, and Project Gutpile, a hunters’ group that provides educational resources for lead-free hunters and anglers.

“As a hunter in California, compliance with the recent state nonlead ammunition regulation has been simple,” Anthony Prieto, a hunter and co-founder of Project Gutpile, said in a statement. “I still get to hunt, there is no toxic impact on wildlife or my health, and copper bullets shoot better.”

But the National Shooting Sports Foundation disagrees.

The association — which represents the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry — announced its opposition to the petition as soon as it was filed.

It said the petition was wrong in claiming that the use of traditional ammunition by hunters is inconsistent with the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976.

“There is simply no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations that would require restricting or banning the use of traditional ammunition beyond current limitations, such as the scientifically based restriction on waterfowl hunting,” association President Steve Sanetti said in a statement.

The association press statement cited recent statistics from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service showing that from 1981 to 2006, the number of breeding pairs of bald eagles in the United States increased 724 percent. And much like the bald eagle, it added, raptor populations throughout the United States are soaring, hardly a sign they were being harmed by ingesting lead from spent bullets.

Lead shot for use in hunting waterfowl has been banned since 1991.

The Center for Biological Diversity said the petitioners “support exceptions to allow continued use of lead pistol ammunition for home defense and non-hunting activities,” and it added the petition would not affect law enforcement or the military.

http://www.democratherald.com/news/local/article_cd27fb84-a2b1-11df-958f-001cc4c002e0.html

Steve

[Gunreference1]

More Lead Ban Efforts Are an Assault on Our Second Amendment Rights and Freedom to Hunt

Submitted by cbaus on Tue, 08/10/2010 - 07:00.
by Larry S. Moore

More efforts are being aimed at eliminating lead - or are they simply aimed at our enjoyment of the shooting sports, fishing and outdoor recreation? Is the motivation behind the latest effort a real safety and environmental concern or is it a back-door attempt to ban firearms from our national parks? We saw efforts to roll back the right to carry in our national parks based on lead concerns immediately after the law went into effect. I'm saying it is yet another attempt to limit our freedom and right to carry.

The extremist Center for Biological Diversity filed a petition with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency seeking to ban ammunition containing lead core components. A National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) alert states, "The National Shooting Sports Foundation encourages all gun owners, hunters and shooters to oppose the petition filed with the Environmental Protection Agency seeking to ban the use of traditional ammunition containing lead-core components. This ban would apply to ALL ammunition including ammunition used by target shooters."

The NSSF continues, "...the petition erroneously claims that the use of traditional ammunition poses a danger to (1) wildlife, in particular raptors such as bald eagles, that may feed on entrails or unrecovered game left in the field and (2) that there is a human health risk from consuming game harvested using traditional ammunition. Also falsely alleged in the petition is that the use of traditional ammunition by hunters is inconsistent with the Toxic Substance Control Act of 1976. Congress expressly exempted ammunition from being regulated as a 'toxic substance.'"

Rob Sexton, the U.S. Sportsmen Alliance vice president for government affairs is quoted in a separate press release saying "It is important for everyone to remember that the engine that drives wildlife conservation is fueled by the dollars generated by the American sportsman. In fact, sportsmen contribute nearly every dime used for managing wildlife and habitat preservation from coast to coast. Given our history of over 100 years of successful wildlife conservation, you would in essence be killing the goose that laid the golden egg with this meat cleaver approach."

Montana, where much of the latest efforts were spawned after lead was supposedly found in donated venison, is at the center of some efforts. The Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Commission is taking up the issue of banning lead in state owned wildlife management areas. The Raptor View Research Institute has submitted data involving Golden Eagles ingesting lead. Texas is also looking at the lead issue left in fields after dove hunting.

Much of the argument for and against this has been put forth previously. There was a group that supposedly found lead in donated venison in Montana.

I didn't believe the reports at the time and suggested that perhaps the lead was intentionally planted so it would be ground and dispersed throughout the meat at the time of processing. Over the last 25 or so years, I've been blessed to kill deer, often several per year. I've taken deer with muzzleloader, shotgun, rifle and handgun. I've used bullets from lead round balls, traditional deer slugs and jacketed bullets sometimes in sabot rounds for shotgun or muzzleloader or in both the rifle and handgun. I've seen bullets deform, split and sometimes fragment. However, I've never found fragments very far from the initial wound channel. We are careful and thorough when butchering to examine the meat around the entry point and wound channels. We've never found lead remains in our venison. I'm much more likely to find a piece of lead shot remaining in the small game I take than in venison. Traditional muzzleloader round balls and shotgun slugs tend to fragment less due to lower velocity than center fire rifle bullets. For those who are interested, Barnes hunting bullets are the only ones of which I am aware that are lead free and offers outstanding terminal performance.

Based on limited personal experience, I remain highly skeptical. I've shot trap for many years. When I was shooting a lot I might reload upwards of 7,500 shotgun shells per year. My physical check-ups include a check for lead. I have none. I use basic good hygiene to wash my hands after handling lead and before doing anything else. I also keep the reloading bench clean. I do not, however, use latex gloves or a face mask.

I was involved with a trap range that recently performed their first lead recovery efforts. Most of the lead was near the surface less than a foot deep. Because of the soil here the lead shot was still in very good condition. Following recovery of the lead, a small drainage ditch was altered with tiling installed. The drainage ditch feeds to the club's 7-acre pond. Tests were performed along the creek and in the pond for lead contamination. No problems were found in the private testing. This is after nearly 50-years of trap shooting at the club with no previous recovery or management efforts.

The NSSF is right-on in their call to action by all gun owners. This ban will affect law enforcement agencies and recreational target shooters from the competition level to the occasional plinker and hunters.

In the alert, the NSSF urges you to stress the following in your opposition:

–There is no scientific evidence that the use of traditional ammunition is having an adverse impact on wildlife populations that would require restricting or banning the use of traditional ammunition beyond current limitations, such as the scientifically based restriction on waterfowl hunting.

–Recent statistics from the United States Fish and Wildlife Service show that from 1981 to 2006 the number of breeding pairs of bald eagles in the United States increased 724 percent. And much like the bald eagle, raptor populations throughout the United States are increasing dramatically.

–A ban on traditional ammunition would have a serious negative impact on wildlife conservation. The federal excise tax that manufacturers pay on the sale of the ammunition (11 percent) is a primary source of wildlife conservation funding. The bald eagle’s recovery, considered to be a great conservation success story, was made possible and funded by hunters using traditional ammunition – the very ammunition organizations like the CBD are now demonizing.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7384

Steve

[windowlicker]

why don't they use something else? whats the deal with lead? whats the befits?

[Bluntforce]

There are two metals with the same qualities of lead, low melting temperature, malleability, high weight and stability at the temperatures humans live in.

The other is Uranium.

Which one would you use?

[slamfire51]

why don't they use something else? whats the deal with lead? whats the befits?

They are.
Elimination of lead will prove to help people spell correctly. It's for your "befits".

[O.S.O.K.]

why don't they use something else? whats the deal with lead? whats the befits?

There is nothing else to use that's anywhere nearly as well suited and economical as lead. That's why.

Plus, all of the current firearms are constructed, rifled, etc. to utilize lead and lead-core bullets. Copper bullets such as the X bullet present loading challenges and often require the use of lighter bullet weights.

What metal or material would you suggest the .22LR packers use for the bullets? And how much are you willing to pay for a 500 count bulk box of .22LR?

[Mark Ducati]

There are two metals with the same qualities of lead, low melting temperature, malleability, high weight and stability at the temperatures humans live in.

The other is Uranium.

Which one would you use?

Uranium is one... what's the other with the same qulities of lead? Or were you refering to lead as the other?

[Krupski]

There are two metals with the same qualities of lead, low melting temperature, malleability, high weight and stability at the temperatures humans live in.

The other is Uranium.

Which one would you use?

Gold would make an awesome bullet. Soft. Dense. More dense than lead.

By the way, Uranium is a very hard and abrasive metal. Uranium bullets would need to be cast and then plated with a lubricant metal like copper. And, upon striking the target, if the uranium fragmented, it could catch fire in the air (uranium is pyrophoric). I wouldn't want to breath the oxides of uranium either... alpha emitters deposited in my bones would be a bad thing.

[Bluntforce]

Uranium is one... what's the other with the same qulities of lead? Or were you refering to lead as the other?

Lead is the other one.

[sevlex]

http://politics.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2010/08/27/epa-surrenders-to-nra-on-gun-control-issue-epa-rejects-attempt-to-regulate-lead-in-bullets-after-nra-protests.html


In a swift and unexpected decision, the Environmental Protection Agency today rejected a petition from environmental groups to ban the use of lead in bullets and shotgun shells, claiming it doesn't have jurisdiction to weigh on the controversial Second Amendment issue.

[recon]

http://politics.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2010/08/27/epa-surrenders-to-nra-on-gun-control-issue-epa-rejects-attempt-to-regulate-lead-in-bullets-after-nra-protests.html


:thumbsup:

[Skarmajunga]

The EPA can blow me!

[Gunreference1]

War against ammunition heats up

6:00 am August 30, 2010, by Bob Barr

Lead, first employed in weaponry by the Romans, has been the metal of choice for use in bullets and shotgun shells for more than seven centuries. However, since at least the mid-1980s, its use has been under attack by various environmental and animal rights groups, joined periodically by government agencies such as the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). In recent months the campaign has heated up considerably, and gives no sign of cooling down; within the U.S. or abroad.

The movement against lead in ammunition has progressed much farther in Europe than here. For one thing, the culture prevalent in Europe (Switzerland being a notable exception) considers firearms ownership a privilege rather than a right; subject to easy and frequent government control. The environmental and animal rights movement is also well-entrenched throughout Europe and within the European Union bureaucracy.

These forces in Europe have resulted in at least three countries — Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands – banning lead shot for all hunted species. Other European countries, including France and England, ban lead shot for hunting waterfowl. Such actions are the result of claims — not supported by any consistent science or medicine — that hunting with lead-based ammunition, and fishing with equipment containing lead, kills millions of birds and other animals each year as a result of ingesting lead traces from these “toxic” hunting and fishing activities.

Animal rights and environmental groups on this side of the Atlantic, however, are working hard to catch up to their European counterparts. The Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) trumpets this issue as a “deadly epidemic” that threatens humans as well as animals. Such efforts have paid some dividends for the anti-lead ammunition advocates in recent months.

Last year, for example, the National Parks Service implemented a plan to ban lead ammunition and lead fishing tackle in parks under its jurisdiction.

The CDC has long been trying to solidify its jurisdiction over firearms and ammunition (defining a shooting as a “disease” is a stretch, but one that has not deterred the dauntless folks at CDC from relentlessly pushing the envelope of their jurisdiction). The agency even has a lead poisoning prevention office, which among other things, conducts studies of lead levels in blood of people in areas where wild game is consumed. No studies have yet shown dangerous levels of lead, but the studies — conducted, of course, at taxpayer expense — continue; perhaps until some imaginative researcher discovers the desired results.

Across the Nation’s Capital, the EPA earlier this month was again drawn into the lead ammunition fray as a result of a petition filed by the CBD and other kindred groups. The petition asked that the EPA assume jurisdiction over lead in ammunition and move to ban it, pursuant to terms of the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act. The EPA last Friday dismissed the petition – correctly concluding that the law, which did in fact grant the feds extensive power to regulate lead, exempted firearms and ammunition from its reach.

Had the EPA decided instead to accept these petitioners’ tortured arguments that somehow the language in the law did not really exempt lead in ammunition, because the offending substance could be separated from the other parts of the cartridges and shells, a battle royal would have ensued with firearms- and hunting-rights organizations.

Still, further actions against ammunition are certain, and more petitions are likely in the months ahead. The bottom line is that this controversy has little to do with the health of either humans or wildlife, and much to do about gun control; whose advocates have taken a beating in recent Supreme Court decisions. Rather than licking their wounds, however, the gun control crowd remains busy looking up old friends at EPA, the CDC and elsewhere in Washington; and finding a more receptive audience.

http://blogs.ajc.com/bob-barr-blog/2010/08/30/epa-launches-campaign-against-ammunition/?cxntfid=blogs_bob_barr_blog

Steve

[El Jefe]

Still, further actions against ammunition are certain, and more petitions are likely in the months ahead. The bottom line is that this controversy has little to do with the health of either humans or wildlife, and much to do about gun control; whose advocates have taken a beating in recent Supreme Court decisions. Rather than licking their wounds, however, the gun control crowd remains busy looking up old friends at EPA, the CDC and elsewhere in Washington; and finding a more receptive audience.


...

[Gunreference1]

Senator Introduces Bill to Protect Traditional Ammunition

Wednesday, 29 September 2010 06:08 Larry Keane

Following continued attacks by anti-hunting groups to ban traditional ammunition (ammunition containing lead-core components) under the Toxic Substance Control Act (TSCA) of 1976, Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.) earlier today introduced legislation to clarify the longstanding exemption of ammunition under the act. The bill is being championed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) – the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry.

“We applaud and thank Sen. Lincoln for introducing this commonsense measure today,” said NSSF President and CEO Stephen L. Sanetti. “This bill will help to ensure that America’s hunters and shooters can continue to choose for themselves the best
ammunition to use.”

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010092911782/us/politics-and-economics/senator-introduces-bill-to-protect-traditional-ammunition.html

Steve

Poster's Note: While not actually stated in the acticle above, I believe it is referring to S. 3850.

S 3850 - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:1:./temp/~bdzDGZ:@@@L&summ2=m&|/home/LegislativeData.php|

[American Rage]

Senator Introduces Bill to Protect Traditional Ammunition

Wednesday, 29 September 2010 06:08 Larry Keane

Following continued attacks by anti-hunting groups to ban traditional ammunition (ammunition containing lead-core components) under the Toxic Substance Control Act (TSCA) of 1976, Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-Ark.) earlier today introduced legislation to clarify the longstanding exemption of ammunition under the act. The bill is being championed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) – the trade association for the firearms, ammunition, hunting and shooting sports industry.

“We applaud and thank Sen. Lincoln for introducing this commonsense measure today,” said NSSF President and CEO Stephen L. Sanetti. “This bill will help to ensure that America’s hunters and shooters can continue to choose for themselves the best
ammunition to use.”

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010092911782/us/politics-and-economics/senator-introduces-bill-to-protect-traditional-ammunition.html

Steve

Poster's Note: While not actually stated in the acticle above, I believe it is referring to S. 3850.

S 3850 - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d111:1:./temp/~bdzDGZ:@@@L&summ2=m&|/home/LegislativeData.php|

The libs will do anything to save their own asses. It's not what they say during election, but in private groups, and even more importantly, what they do when it comes to vote for a bill. I say their all a bunch of lying communists who will do anything to get elected.


Rage

[Gunreference1]

Wednesday, September 29th, 2010 at 7:05 pm

Senator Frank R. Lautenberg on Lead Ammunition – WTF

Washington, DC --(Ammoland.com)- Anti gun Senator Lautenberg is well known for his hatred of freedom and firearms ownership by the sheeple and we are well aware of his many, many attempts to strip law abiding Americans of their right to keep and bear arms.

But as one of his unfortunate new jersey subjects found out, that same campaign of misinformation is being applied at all levels of his organization where they seemingly never miss opportunities to spread miss truths.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.ammoland.com/2010/09/29/senator-frank-lautenberg-on-lead-ammunition/

Steve

Poster's Note: There is an interesting letter from Lautenberg in the link above.

[Gunreference1]

For Immediate Release, November 23, 2010

Contact: Jeff Miller, Center for Biological Diversity, (510) 499-9185
Anthony Prieto, Project Gutpile, (805) 729-5455
Karen Schambach, PEER, (530) 333-2545

Lawsuit Filed Over EPA Refusal to Address Lead Poisoning of Wildlife

Suit Seeks to Prevent Annual Deaths of Millions of Wild Birds, Wildlife From
Toxic Lead in Ammunition, Fishing Gear

WASHINGTON— Conservation and hunting groups today sued the Environmental Protection Agency for failing to regulate toxic lead that frequently poisons and kills eagles, swans, cranes, loons, endangered California condors and other wildlife throughout the country. The EPA recently denied a formal petition to ban lead in fishing tackle and hunting ammunition despite long-established science on the dangers of lead poisoning in the wild, which kills millions of birds each year and also endangers public health.

“The EPA has the ability to protect America’s wildlife from ongoing preventable lead poisoning, but continues to shirk its responsibility,” said Jeff Miller, conservation advocate with the Center for Biological Diversity. “The EPA’s failure to act is astonishing given the mountain of scientific evidence about the dangers of lead to wildlife. There are already safe and available alternatives to lead products for hunting and fishing, and the EPA can phase in a changeover to nontoxic materials, so there’s no reason to perpetuate the epidemic of lead poisoning of wildlife.”

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2010/lead-11-23-2010.html

Steve

[Gunreference1]

Tuesday, November 23rd, 2010 at 10:34 pm

NSSF to Intervene in Lawsuit Challenging EPA on Traditional Ammunition

NEWTOWN, Conn --(Ammoland.com)- In response to a lawsuit filed today challenging the Environmental Protection Agency’s denial of a petition to ban traditional ammunition containing lead core components, the National Shooting Sports Foundation will file a motion to intervene.

This action allows NSSF to protect industry’s interests in the case and ensure that the will of Congress is adhered to.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.ammoland.com/2010/11/23/nssf-intervenes-in-lawsuit-challenging-epa-on-traditional-ammunition/

Steve

[Tx Dogblaster]

why don't they use something else? whats the deal with lead? whats the befits?

It's cheap and plentiful. It expands well...


This all the same old song and dance from the enviro Nazis that's been going on for years. They're like a dog with an old rag, they just won't let go. They know there isn't any truth to their argument. It's all about controlling the sheep

[O.S.O.K.]

Perhaps this will awaken all of the hunters and fishermen that have been sitting idly by saying "I don't care about asault weapons", etc.

Can you say "$60/box hunting ammo?" And you can bet that they'll find fault with any metal that is chosen to be used in bullets...

This isn't about anything but gun control.

Fuck the EPA and the marxist scum that are perpetrating this shit. If they keep it up, pretty soon there'll be an on-going hunting season - on them. It's gererally referred to as "revolution". And nobody will be worries about what kind of ammo that they use. :firedevil:

[DeadPool]

Perhaps this will awaken all of the hunters and fishermen that have been sitting idly by saying "I don't care about asault weapons", etc.

Can you say "$60/box hunting ammo?" And you can bet that they'll find fault with any metal that is chosen to be used in bullets..
This isn't about anything but gun control.

Fuck the EPA and the marxist scum that are perpetrating this shit. If they keep it up, pretty soon there'll be an on-going hunting season - on them. It's gererally referred to as "revolution". And nobody will be worries about what kind of ammo that they use. :firedevil:

$60 hunting ammo? yea cor-bon is the shit

[O.S.O.K.]

$60 hunting ammo? yea cor-bon is the shit

As opposed to $12 remchester... that will be a shock to a lot of folks...

[Gunreference1]

David Codrea
Gun Rights Examiner

ATF attempting to reclassify small arms ammunition without public input

November 27th, 2010 11:52 am ET

“Recently, the NFATCA took the lead on an issue that could have far-reaching consequences in the NFA and Sporting communities,” the National Firearms Act Trade & Collectors Association reports.

What issue?

It was learned that ATF was seeking to create a definition of small arms ammunition under the aegis of the Safe Explosives Act. The definition was being created as an opinion letter and had no input from the firearms community.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-national/atf-attempting-to-reclassify-small-arms-ammunition-without-public-input

Steve

[Gunreference1]

Thursday, February 10th, 2011 at 5:53 PM

NRA Seeks To Protect Hunters Interests In Lawsuit Seeking Ban On Lead Ammunition

Los Angles, CA --(Ammoland.com)- Recently the National Rifle Association (NRA) filed a motion to intervene to fight for hunter’s rights in a lawsuit brought by self-proclaimed environmentalists that seeks to force the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to ban the manufacture, processing, and distribution of lead shot, bullets, and fishing sinkers throughout the country.

NRA, joined with Safari Club International (SCI), seeks to enter into the case to defend the rights and interests of hunters, competitive shooters, and other firearm owners who would otherwise likely not be adequately represented in the case.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.ammoland.com/2011/02/10/nra-protects-hunters-in-lawsuit-seeking-ban-on-lead-ammunition/

Steve

[Penguin]

Something tells me we are going to be fighting the whole ban on lead bullets thing on and off untill we all kick the bucket. Or the government outlaws guns, which ever comes first.

[Krupski]

Lead comes from Uranium. Can't remember the name of the natural process.


Radioisotope decay.

U238 (the prevalent isotope of Uranium) sheds alpha and beta particles, finally transforming into Pb206.

U235 (the go-boom stuff) also sheds alpha and beta particles and transforms into Pb207.

Then, Pb transforms into bullets, sinkers, car batteries and all other kinds of useful things. :)

BTW, trivia: The chemical symbol for lead is "Pb" from the latin "Plumbus" which means... lead (and also where the word "Plumber" came from - a guy who works in lead (pipes)).

[Krupski]

Maybe we can some Tungsten bullets now :)

Copper jacketed tungsten (copper to protect and lubricate down the barrel) would make a great projectile. And, despite the fact that VELOCITY controls penetration, not COMPOSITION, the BATFE assholes would ban tungsten ammo as "armor piercing".

Gold would make an even better bullet. Soft. Dense. Non toxic. Ammo prices are so high, they may as well use gold anyway.

[Krupski]

Lead quickly develops a coating of rust that seals in all the interesting stuff as it harmlessly oxidizes.

Are you thinking of aluminum?

Metallic lead isn't toxic. You could eat a chunk of it and nothing would happen. You could also swallow a glass of metallic mercury and nothing would happen (other than shitting in silver!).

It's the water and fat soluble OXIDES that are dangerous. Lead oxides and lead salts are the things that dissolve in ground water and deliver toxic heavy metals to an animal at the molecular level.

[Krupski]

There are two metals with the same qualities of lead, low melting temperature, malleability, high weight and stability at the temperatures humans live in.

The other is Uranium.

Which one would you use?

You forget gold. MORE dense than lead, soft, malleable and completely non-toxic.

[O.S.O.K.]

Tin. Tin can be cast just like lead and is used in lead alloys due to it's low melting point.

It's not as dense as lead but it would work and it's priced about right I think...

[Cypher]

I don't think they will ever be able to ban lead ammo.

What ever you do don't tell them about Cor-Bon DPX ammo.

[Gunreference1]

Lead Ammunition is Safe! For Now . . .

Posted on September 30, 2011 by Robert Farago

Last year, the Center for Biological Diversity’s (CBD) filed a lawsuit against the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). The CBD wanted to force the EPA to ban lead ammunition. To quote Sgt. Carter, diss-missed! As you’ll no doubt recall from our August 2010 post on the proposed ban (http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/08/robert-farago/epa-to-ban-lead-ammo-seriously/), the CBD’s petition included lead ammo and fishing tackle lead on their hit list. Sportsmen responded in [symbolic] force; hunters, target shooters, fishermen and their proxies overwhelmed the EPA with comments and feedback. None of it particularly supportive. Shortly after the petition was filed, the EPA rejected the portion relating to lead ammunition (http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/08/robert-farago/breaking-epa-denies-petition-to-ban-lead-ammunition/) . . .

The planet’s protectors correctly noted that the Toxic Substances Control Act (TOSCA)—under which the CBD asked for the ban—does not provide the EPA with the authority to regulate ammunition.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/09/robert-farago/lead-ammunition-is-safe-for-now/

Steve

[insider]

Stack em deep buy em cheap, get all the lead you can! The wackos will never stop.

[Gunreference1]

Wednesday, November 30th, 2011 at 1:31 PM

Gun & Sporting Organizations Praise Tester’s Amendment To Preclude EPA From Banning Ammunition

Tester introduces measure to prevent EPA from banning traditional ammo and tackle.

U.S. SENATE --(Ammoland.com)- Gun and sporting organizations are supporting Senator Jon Tester’s efforts to ensure that hunters and anglers can continue using traditional ammunition and fishing tackle.

Tester this week offered an amendment to clarify that the Environmental Protection Agency does not have the ability to regulate bullets, shot or sinkers.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.ammoland.com/2011/11/30/gun-sporting-organizations-praise-testers-amendment-to-preclude-epa-from-banning-ammunition/

Steve

[shotdown61]

Actually I don't see anywhere on the Washington Examiner page that states it can't be copied, and since they allow it to be emailed, don't worry about Copyright issues.
:joker:

Anyway, this is only our wonderful governments attempt to violate the second amendment by banning ammo.

Question, if they do ban lead ammo, are they going to ask that we return every round we have? Could get messy.

Even more messy coming at 3000fps

[Schuetzenman]

Tin. Tin can be cast just like lead and is used in lead alloys due to it's low melting point.

It's not as dense as lead but it would work and it's priced about right I think...

Tin is probably $13 bucks a pound. Actually I just checked and it's running about $9.30 / Lb. Last time I bought any it was $7 something and that was back in the early 1990's. At the same time I was paying 45 cents a pound for pure lead in 90 lb. ingots. Just checked lead prices. Right now it's around 90 cents a pound, back in May it was $1.20 ish / lb.

[American Rage]

Stack em deep buy em cheap, get all the lead you can! The wackos will never stop.

Excellent advice!

[Warthogg]

Due to the recent copyright lawsuits......

The copyright lawsuiters are....broke.


Wart

[American Rage]

The copyright lawsuiters are....broke.


Wart

I've recently read that

[JTHunter]

Even more messy coming at 3000fps

That's the BEST way! *weg*

[Gunreference1]

Senator Tester -”EPA Decision To Back Off Lead Ban The Right Call”

Thursday, February 16th, 2012 at 8:18 PM

Responsible safeguards needed to protect Montana’s world-class fishing, Senator says.

U.S. SENATE --(Ammoland.com)- Senator Jon Tester, chairman of the Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus, released the following statement after the Environmental Protection Agency today dismissed a petition to ban lead fishing tackle:

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/02/16/senator-tester-epa-decision-to-back-off-lead-ban-the-right-call/

Steve

[rci2950]

why don't they use something else? whats the deal with lead? whats the befits?

the density and weight.

[5.56NATO]

lol@"containment mound"

[Gunreference1]

EDITORIAL: Another round for lead ammo

Gun foes pursue disarmament by other means

By THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Monday, March 26, 2012

Second Amendment foes have reloaded in another attempt to restrict Americans’ use of firearms. Disguised as nature lovers, gun grabbers are repeating a demand that the Environmental Protection Agency (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/environmental-protection-agency/) (EPA (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/environmental-protection-agency/)) ban the use of lead in ammunition. Forcing hunters to shell out for pricey substitutes is meant to discourage the sport and reduce gun ownership. Given the EPA (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/environmental-protection-agency/)’s propensity for overregulation, Congress (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/congress/) should step in and ensure this restriction never happens.

Earlier this month, the Center for Biological Diversity (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/center-for-biological-diversity/) petitioned the EPA (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/environmental-protection-agency/) on behalf of about 100 organizations in 35 states to forbid the use of lead in ammunition on the grounds that the heavy metal is toxic for wildlife. The group made the same request in 2010, but the agency (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/environmental-protection-agency/) declined to do so at that time, saying the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976 does not grant authority to prohibit lead ammunition. Undeterred, the center (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/center-for-biological-diversity/) filed a lawsuit in federal court, arguing that while the EPA (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/environmental-protection-agency/) may not be empowered to regulate ammo, the agency (http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/environmental-protection-agency/) could designate lead a toxic component that is subject to restriction. The case is pending.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/26/another-round-for-lead-ammo/

Steve

[Penguin]

This again.:dammit: I swear this one and the UN small arms treaty come back every year. I don't think that either of them will ever go away.

[Warthogg]

EPA going for coal powered electric generating plants this month.

In April EPA goes after natural gas....fracking. Will probably reduce natural gas by about 50%.


Wart

[Tx Dogblaster]

Fuck those bastards! I make good money providing parts for frac trailers...

[Gunreference1]

California condors won't make it as long as hunters use lead ammunition, study shows

Published: Monday, June 25, 2012, 1:20 PM
Updated: Monday, June 25, 2012, 2:43 PM

By Katy Muldoon, The Oregonian The Oregonian (http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/kmuldoon/index.html)

http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/california%20condor/index.html will never be able to grow self-sustaining populations as long as hunters are permitted to use lead ammunition, according to a study (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-06/uoc--lpb062012.php) published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (http://www.pnas.org/).

The investigation, led by environmental toxicologists at the University of California, Santa Cruz (http://www.ucsc.edu/), offers the latest evidence showing condors are continually exposed to harmful levels of lead when they feed on animals killed with lead ammo or on lead-laced gut piles left behind by hunters.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2012/06/california_condors_wont_make_i.html

Steve

[N/A]

Fuck those bastards! I make good money providing parts for frac trailers...

Fractech????

[imanaknut]

California condors won't make it as long as hunters use lead ammunition, study shows

Published: Monday, June 25, 2012, 1:20 PM
Updated: Monday, June 25, 2012, 2:43 PM

By Katy Muldoon, The Oregonian The Oregonian (http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/kmuldoon/index.html)

http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/california%20condor/index.html will never be able to grow self-sustaining populations as long as hunters are permitted to use lead ammunition, according to a study (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-06/uoc--lpb062012.php) published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (http://www.pnas.org/).

The investigation, led by environmental toxicologists at the University of California, Santa Cruz (http://www.ucsc.edu/), offers the latest evidence showing condors are continually exposed to harmful levels of lead when they feed on animals killed with lead ammo or on lead-laced gut piles left behind by hunters.

To read the rest of the story click the link below.

http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2012/06/california_condors_wont_make_i.html

Steve

Lead laced gut piles??? When game is shot, there is so little lead transfer to the blood system. Just like Algore screaming that my automobile is killing polar bears, these people are using the excuse that the one molecule per billion of lead that is possibly in the blood of what is left of an animal after a hunter is finished cleaning it is killing Condors??? Sounds like the air that they are breathing must be laced with lead which is known to cause brain damage.

On second thought, you have to have a brain in the first place for it to be damaged by lead.

[Schuetzenman]

On second thought, you have to have a brain in the first place for it to be damaged by lead.

This!

[insider]

The watermelons will stop at nothing to spread their stupidity!

[tank_monkey]

on lead-laced gut piles left behind by hunters.


Now I don't buy the LEAD LACED GUT PILES theory. But say I did....

Remember it's the Liberal Democrats who banned California hunters from using any sort of off road vehicle to remove their kills from hunting trips, so you have to manually CARRY a deer carcass out of the forest with your friends by foot. That means gutting and cleaning the carcass. If they wanted us to remove the entire animal and removed the 'lead-laced guts' when we returned home (we could always BURY the damned gut piles), they should ALLOW us to use offroad vehicles to remove the carcasses.

Remember, THEY'RE the one who created the problem (if there is a problem) in the first place. :losing-it:

[BISHOP]

THAT is the liberal mindset.
Create a non-existing problem, and then pass (force) laws and regulations to solve it.


BISHOP