Barrel wobble?

[infidel0910]

Hello all, new on here and have a question regarding my ak-74 that i got from budsguns. its a century arms model and i've put about 450 rnds through it. While cleaning it after the range i noticed that while holding the rifle vertical by the receiver with my left hand and the barrel with my right i notice some very slight movement. it appears the barrel is moving. It is not visually noticeable and fired fine at the range with no problems. My wasr 10/63 does not do this, so naturally it was cause for concern. I got into the AK game a year ago and fell in love, so im still kinda new to it all, trying to read a lot, lol. If anybody can shed some AK wisdom/knowledge on this situation, i would greatly appreciate it.

[Schuetzenman]

Wobbly gas pistons are normal, wobbly barrels are NOT. Is it really the barrel or is the trunion that the barrel is pressed into, not riveted well to the receiver? In either case it means a lot less accuracy from the weapon.

[infidel0910]

Wobbly gas pistons are normal, wobbly barrels are NOT. Is it really the barrel or is the trunion that the barrel is pressed into, not riveted well to the receiver? In either case it means a lot less accuracy from the weapon.

It may be the trunion or the barrel, I can't say for sure, I'll have to take a closer look. Either way it is a rivet problem right? Is this something I should try and fix or best let a gunsmith who is familiar with ak's fix it?

[romak10/63UF]

The barrel is pressed in to the front trunnion then set in place with the barrel pin... if the barrel is self is moving with just the force of your hand movement wouldnt that meen two things... Excessive barrel pin hold size not matched up to the correct size...

Next would be the barrel it self is too small by micrometers pressed into the front trunnion...

Now comes to the point if your rifle is still under warrenty from were it was made ? i would call them up an tell them whats going on an see if you can ship it back to them to fix the problem....

[deth502]

id agree with scheutz that its the trunnion in the receiver moving. you have to have a pretty fucked up kit for the bbl to be wobbling in the trunnion, and i doubt it would have ever left the factory as a military weapon being that bad. its much more likely that whoever assembled the rifle here in semi auto form screwed up the rivets.

for a new gun after only a few hundred rounds, id talk to the dealer about returning it.

[infidel0910]

Thanks for the tips all. Upon closer inspection it appears to be the trunnion moving in the receiver and not the barrel. I also noticed the the rivets on both sides of the receiver are not seated all the way and a few of them appear slightly canted. I'm assuming that's the problem. Are those rivets something I can fix, if so, are they just tapped in or heated and tapped or is a press needed? If its a simple fix I would rather handle it locally but if not I'd send it back. Sorry about all the noob questions guys I just figures I'd get the advice of people who have built or handled ak's more than me. Thanks again.

[Schuetzenman]

Thanks for the tips all. Upon closer inspection it appears to be the trunnion moving in the receiver and not the barrel. I also noticed the the rivets on both sides of the receiver are not seated all the way and a few of them appear slightly canted. I'm assuming that's the problem. Are those rivets something I can fix, if so, are they just tapped in or heated and tapped or is a press needed? If its a simple fix I would rather handle it locally but if not I'd send it back. Sorry about all the noob questions guys I just figures I'd get the advice of people who have built or handled ak's more than me. Thanks again.

Oy-vey sounds like some drunken monkey built that one! Seriously though, rivets not flush to the receiver and canted is piss poor quality and is amature grade work. If you've never done an AK build I would advise against attempting it yourself. I've built them and any rivet that didn't meet my standards of quality was drilled out and redone. Those were few and far between I might add. You need a rivet pressing jig and steel plates that have a domed depression cut in them so that the rivet head doesn't get flattened. The secret to good rivets is that the receiver has to be pressed firmly down on to the rivet head and then the rivet shank is crushed in a cold, not heated state. The shank should be a good thick round bulge on the inside of the trunion recess. Over pressing them makes them thin and they might get loose, not pressing enough and they could be loose.

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/500/Polish_folder_full_length_in_grass.jpg

http://www.gunsnet.net/photopost/data/500/Close_up_of_Polish_Under_Folder_action.jpg
Here's images of the last AKM type that I built before I sold my tools off. It's made from a Polish kit, original barrel and orginal finish on the wood and pistol grip. The finish is KG Gun Kote baked on finish. The close up of the receiver should give you an idea of what rivets are supposed to look like.

[infidel0910]

Wow, great. So basically have a gunsmith fix it or send it back are my options right? Thanks for all the good info everyone, big help for sure.

[awp101]

Oy-vey sounds like some drunken monkey built that one!
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu306/awp101_2009/c414b3bb.jpg

[Schuetzenman]

Wow, great. So basically have a gunsmith fix it or send it back are my options right? Thanks for all the good info everyone, big help for sure.

Yes I would say that is your best path with the builders fixing it as the first option vs. paying some gunsmith that may not know dick about how to do an AK weapon. Most don't I'd say so you'd be rolling the dice on it and might end up as bad or worse off than you are now. Here's some links and a photo of what the rivet jig press thing looks like and where to get it. However it isn't cheap, $250 bucks! You shouldn't have to buy one to get a rifle built properly.

http://ak-builder.com/images/detailed/0/rivet_tool1.jpg http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29972
These are supposed to be powered by a 12 ton hydraulic bottle jack press. They press on the large center piece. Until I bought my press I used a 2 LB. black smiths hammer to smack that thing and crush the rivets. It's loud and can bounce around. The press is quiet and nothing moves usually. It takes a lot of special tools to do an AK build and then you still need to know how to use them properly. I've see a lot of home builds that the rivets sat up off the surface of the receivers. That's cause they didn't get the reciver pressed firmly down on the rivet and held tight until the shank was pressed. I see that problem mostly with the bolt cutter rivet tools, much more challenging to get the receiver down on and held tight against the rivet for crushing with those. You need 4 hands to do it I think. These jigs and a bottle jack press, your 2 hands are sufficient.

[infidel0910]

Buncha ak aficionado's around here. Lol. Well thanks for all the info guys. Doesn't look like I'll be building my own ak's anytime soon. I am mechanically inclined but don't have the green for a new hobby now. Im looking into returning it, looks like a pain in the ass. I got I through budsgunshop.com, it's a century arms Rl-1620-X. If Anyone else have dealings with buds or this particular rifle, please share. Guess I should stick with better quaility stuff, maybe arsenal.

[Schuetzenman]

Buncha ak aficionado's around here. Lol. Well thanks for all the info guys. Doesn't look like I'll be building my own ak's anytime soon. I am mechanically inclined but don't have the green for a new hobby now. Im looking into returning it, looks like a pain in the ass. I got I through budsgunshop.com, it's a century arms Rl-1620-X. If Anyone else have dealings with buds or this particular rifle, please share. Guess I should stick with better quaility stuff, maybe arsenal.

If Bud's will stand behind it that would be the best thing to do. However, I would point out that Century has a 1 year warranty on their weapons. Unfortuantely it can be hard to prove to them unless you have a bill of sale. As a once was a dealer, I have sent back Century screw ups and they have repaired them to my satisfaction. Often this will cost you postage coming and going. My adivise is to contact Bud's first and see what they say. Only go to Century if you can't get anywhere with Bud's.

[awp101]

However, I would point out that Century has a 1 year warranty on their weapons.
I'm hearing rumors to the effect that CAI starts counting the 1 year from the time it is shipped to the dealer. I can't place exactly where I've seen this but I seem to recall at least a couple of threads either here or or someplace else where new owners have run into it.

[Schuetzenman]

I'm hearing rumors to the effect that CAI starts counting the 1 year from the time it is shipped to the dealer. I can't place exactly where I've seen this but I seem to recall at least a couple of threads either here or or someplace else where new owners have run into it.

I've heard that as well but can't verify it. Best way to find out is to call and ask Customer Service what the details are.

[infidel0910]

I've checked with buds and they said that I'd have to take it up with century, because I accepted the transfer of the weapon. So I called century and they said it's under warranty and gave me all the info about sending it to them. They said it should take a few weeks to fix and get back to me. I just love how other people's shoddy workmanship inconveniences me and costs me more money. Typical now adays, customer service that barely exists.

[deth502]

caveat emptor.

imo, thats probably one of the least painful outcomes for you. i do think buds fucked the pooch too. they sold the rifle, they should take SOME responsibility other than telling you , tough shit, and passing the buck.