New Upper on Order

[NAPOTS]

I built my AR in A2 configuration with a Armalite heavy barreled 20" upper.

I found myself wanting to be able to shoot longer range and shoot for tight groups at longer range so I kicked around the idea of getting a 7.62 bolt gun with heavy barrel, like a Remington 700p but the cost of the gun and optic drove me away and I do like shooting the AR especially after I put a geiselle trigger in it.

I ended up ordering a RRA Varmint A4 20" upper. With a 1/8 twist it should like heavier bullets.

I also ordered a Leupold mark AR 3x9 scope.

I am not sure about the scope but I will give it a try.

I will post a review as soon as it gets here and I can get it out to the range. I plan on trying 69 gr and 77 gr bullets if I can find them to see what it likes.

That said, I need to get into reloading.

Does anyone else have either this upper or scope?

[imanaknut]

Don't have but is sounds like a nice setup!!!

[blobman]

what kinda of twist and how much did it cost

[Mark Ducati]

3x9 scope?

Did you mean 3-9x40 scope?

I've got a Leupold (MKII I think) 3-9x40 scope on a 17hmr rifle and its awesome!

[Schuetzenman]

what kinda of twist and how much did it cost

It's in his post 1 in 8 is the twist. No cost given.

To NAPOTS, there are some 69 and 77 gr. rounds on the market but you are going to pay a premium for them. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=819452 Midway has 77 gr. Black Hills. Follow link. http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm...GM223M&src=sim Federal 69's. http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?co...Match%2020/box Federal 77's at Natchez.

You DO need to get into reloading. 69 gr. Sierra with Varget and a Rem 7 1/2 small benchrest primer is a tack driving combo out to 600 yards. At 100 a really high quality barrel like a Kreiger, (I have one) will hold sub .400" for 10 shots. Your 3 - 9 scope is a tad light on magnification for long range IMHO. I have 77 gr. Sierras but haven't found a load combo I like just yet. I use a 6.5x20 Leupold on my Match AR but most of the time I run it on 10X. If Ihad it to do over again I'd probably get a variable that went only to about 10 or 12X max magnification. Leupold optics are top notch. You can pay a lot more and not get that much more in seeing capability.

Reason I run my scope on 10X max even for 600 yard matches is I see too much pulse beat in the sight picture. Yeah, bet you didn't know about that if you've always been an iron sight guy. I shot iron sights in competition for about 15 years and finally got into using scopes. Oh that was a tough transition to do. Scopes let you see everything that you do. Every muscle tremor, twitch, breath, heart beat, even when you swallow, it all shows up. I have met guys that couldn't make the transition to optics. They got psyched out and shot like shit with a scope. Give them back the iron sights and they were very good shots.

[NAPOTS]

The Upper was $708. I ordered it directly from RRA because I wanted the option of the bead blasted barrel.

Schuetzenman that is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for!

With a 1/8 twist do you know off the bat if it will like 69 or 77 gr bullets better? I know some guys especially the tacticool crowd are going with 18" 1/7 barrels (SPR clones). I have read that a lot of barrels marked 1/7 are closer to 1/8 anyway.

like I said I was originally looking at a 7.62x51 NATO Bolt gun and I would have probably put a scope that went up to at least 10x with a mildot recticle.

For the 5.56 I chose the Leupold because it is matched to the AR and has a bullet drop compensator. Maybe I jumped the gun a little as it is calibrated for 55 gr bullets and I knew that the 77s would drop a lot faster. I hope that being a Leupold that it still has good glass. The scope was relatively inexpensive ($299). I also bought the Leupold scope mount that pushed the scope forward so I can get proper eye relief. If I don't like the scope the mount should be good for any 1" tube scope that i want to use in the future.

How do the 55 gr bullets group at 100 yards with a 1/8 twist? I doubt the federal XM193 I shoot through the A2 upper is very accurate to begin with.

I have been wanting to get a reloading setup for a while. I shoot .45 acp and would like to try the wadcutter load Wilson recommends. It is kinda tough keeping track of the .45 brass at the range but with the AR I can use a brass catcher.

The Sierra bullets themselves don't seem that expensive for match kings and I see a lot of guys like varget for 5.56mm.

Have you ever had an issue with light primer strikes?

[NAPOTS]

The scope just came in the mail. The BDC dial has the bullet weight and velocity written on it. I guess I can get custom ones made from the leupold custom shop, thats pretty cool!

[Schuetzenman]

1 in 8 will work with up to and including 80 gr. Sierra Match King bullets but they are so long they can not be fed from the magazine. You have to single load them through the ejector port. They are the standard 600 yard Service Rifle and High Power Match Gun bullet.

But I digress you asked about the 77's, 69's and 55 gr. projectiles. A lot of accuracy hinges on the throating the barrel has. My Kreiger 1 in 8 20" HBAR type Service Rifle barrel loves the 69's with a tad over 25.4 grs. of Varget and the Rem. 7 1/2 primer. The 77's from what a buddy of mine says, like about 25 grs. of Varget or Vihtavuori N540 Powder. You'll get more speed out of the Vihtavouri poweder and it also is da powder for the 80 gr. Sierra. But oh man is that stuff expensive! I have some N530 to try with 62 up to 69 gr. bullets but it's faster burning and speeds aren't so good for the 77.

On 55 gr. bullets, they might shoot good and they might not. Once again it depends more on how your chamber throating is cut. Being Rock River and unless it says it is a mach chambered barrel it should do well with the light bullets.

BTW, a good less expensive primer is Wolf / Tula ammo small magnum rifle primers. I've used a lot of these and they don't slam fire and do produce good accruacy. So far I'm only used them on 62 gr. SS109 projectiles and an FMJ 62 gr. all lead core bullet. I get those from Widener's Reloading in Johnson City, TN. They also have a pretty good price on primers but you need to order at least a case to amortize the damned Haz Mat fees which are $25 bucks on a package containing primers or powder. They won't ship and nobody will, primers and powder in the same package. So if you 'aren't going to go LARGE on ordering primers and powder your best bet is to go to Gun Shows and find a reloading component dealer.

I do this myself to save money on the hazmat fees. I picked up 8 lbs. of surplus WC844 ball powder to use with the 62 gr. bullets for $85. Varget by contrast is going to run you $129 bucks or more for an 8 Lb. jug.

Here's some reloading resource links for you to book mark in your Favorites file. They are great places to buy in bulk on primers or powder. Pat's often has surplus pulled bullets like the SS109 and the tracer bullets. Widener's has new bullets in .224" size mostly. This is where I get the 62 gr. lead core and my SS109 with steel penetrator.

http://www.wideners.com/index.cfm
http://patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.aspx
http://powdervalleyinc.com/

Here's some trivia for you, there are 7000 grains in a pound. So if you divide your powder charge into 7000 you can calculate with good accuracy how many rounds you can load per pound of powder. WC844 I use at 25.5 grs. with the SS109 62 gr. bullet. That gives me about 274 shots per pound or 2,196 shots for an 8 lb. jug of powder. Use less, get more shots, use more get less.

[O.S.O.K.]

This is one of the very cool things about the AR platform. You can get a job-specific upper and switch it out with others in a few seconds.

At the present time, I am limited to shooting at 100 yards at my range.

But after I move to my land that we just purchased, I'm going to rig up a range with long-distance berms. It's kind of hilly so I'm not sure just how far I can go but I could build a short sniper tower... Yeah, maybe that's the thing. I could use my own pine trees in fact....

I may have to get one of the new "no change to components accept the barrel" calibers that have come out - like 300 Blackout or 7.62 WT or similar.

[Schuetzenman]

This is one of the very cool things about the AR platform. You can get a job-specific upper and switch it out with others in a few seconds.

At the present time, I am limited to shooting at 100 yards at my range.

But after I move to my land that we just purchased, I'm going to rig up a range with long-distance berms. It's kind of hilly so I'm not sure just how far I can go but I could build a short sniper tower... Yeah, maybe that's the thing. I could use my own pine trees in fact....

I may have to get one of the new "no change to components accept the barrel" calibers that have come out - like 300 Blackout or 7.62 WT or similar.

Blackout or 300 Wisper are for suppressed fire. They have rainbow like trajectories as the bullets are going to be subsonic. If I was you I'd look at 6.5 grendel. Plenty big enough for deer, super accurate at even 1000 yards from what I'm reading. Does a job up close and personal. Uses the standard AR15 / M16 lower receiver. You just need specific mags for it to feed best.

[NAPOTS]

It came today! It is a tad loose on my lower so I will get an accuwedge.
The scope mounts are the Leupold Mark 2 IMS rings and I am not terribly impressed, the rings canted slightly off center when I tightened the base to the rail on top of the receiver. I like the cantilever though, it puts the scope real far forward.

[Schuetzenman]

Looking good. You'll find that shooting prine will put your eye very close to the scope, much more so than offhand or sitting positions, (like at a bench). It's good you have the forward raking ring system.

[NAPOTS]

Schuetz, I was taught to shoot ARs nose to charging handle for a consistant cheek weld. This scope is even a bit too far back for that and its about as far forward as possible. I don't know how anyone shoots one of these with a straight up and down mounting system.

[arcangel]

Very nice setup you have there. I use Hornady's 55gr match fmj, remington 7 1/2 small benchrest primer, Lake city brass, and Varget powder and have touched 400y with that out of my S&W M&P15T and Ta01 Acog. For anything further than 500y on a really good day I go to the DPMS AP4 with Leupold MK4 LR/T 3.5x10x40mm. But I really have to do my work that far out there with such a short barrel and use a bi-pod on both rifles at those ranges. I really cant do much past 300-400y by standing or sitting. I only have 2 scopes, The Leupold, and Acog and both are the shit! Clean, crisp, and simply wonderful. Enjoy that rifle, and hope to see a range report when you can.

[NAPOTS]

I bought some ammmo tonight to feed her. I got a box each of Federal loaded with 69 gr and 77 gr SMKs. I also bought a box of match Hornady 75 gr bullets. HOLY SHIT that stuff is expensive. Its over a buck a round! I remember when that was the going rate for 50 BMG and I thought who the hell pays a dollar a shot for ammo? Apparently that guy is me about 10 years later.

I also bought a few boxes of M193 to see how the barrel likes it and to get me on paper.

Results to follow.

[O.S.O.K.]

Blackout or 300 Wisper are for suppressed fire. They have rainbow like trajectories as the bullets are going to be subsonic. If I was you I'd look at 6.5 grendel. Plenty big enough for deer, super accurate at even 1000 yards from what I'm reading. Does a job up close and personal. Uses the standard AR15 / M16 lower receiver. You just need specific mags for it to feed best.

Funny, I was just looking at that very thing just half an hour ago.... and then this popped up on the "what's new" list.

[O.S.O.K.]

I bought some ammmo tonight to feed her. I got a box each of Federal loaded with 69 gr and 77 gr SMKs. I also bought a box of match Hornady 75 gr bullets. HOLY SHIT that stuff is expensive. Its over a buck a round! I remember when that was the going rate for 50 BMG and I thought who the hell pays a dollar a shot for ammo? Apparently that guy is me about 10 years later.

I also bought a few boxes of M193 to see how the barrel likes it and to get me on paper.

Results to follow.

Definately handload for this baby!

Looking forward to the range report!

[NAPOTS]

ok here is the range report.

I put 2 boxes of M193, and one box each of Federal 69 gr SMK, Federal 77 gr SMK, and Hornady 75 gr match ammo through it. It fed all of it wihtout a hitch. I really like the big latch, it makes it easy to use the charging handle around the scope. The harris bipod I put on there is awesome. I really like it, it feels better to me than sandbags becuase they are always shifting and changing height. The gesielle trigger I put on there is great, it breaks very crisp at around 4 lbs. I also bought 2 10 round AR Stoner magazines from Midway and they worked fine.

The Leupold scope is nice and clear and the adjustments feel nice and precise. I was able to get it zeroed in around 3 or 4, 3-shot groups.


The skinny on ammo. The barrel aparently doesn't like 55gr bullets, at all, as you can see from my group below. I was also not thrilled with the 69 or 77 gr sierra match king bullets. The 75 gr hornady worked very well for me. All of the groups below are at 100 yards. I shot more at 300 yards but didn't take pictures. The results were comprable, just a bit larger. My best group at 300 was a 2.5" 5 shot group taken with the 75gr hornady bullets.


Federal Match .223 loaded with 69 gr Sierra Match King Bullets.


Federal Match .223 Loaded with 77 gr Sierra Match King Bullets. (yea I know, I pulled a shot)


Hornady Match loaded with 75 gr BTHP Bullets


M193 55 gr FMJ (Note, this target is much larger than the others)

[Schuetzenman]

I suspect it isn't the bullet so much as the powder charge and how it shakes your barrel. Meaning, if you were doing your own reloading you probably could dupicate the 75 gr. Hornaday rounds with any of the SMK bullets.

[Mark Ducati]

6-7 weeks to order an Upper from ANY manufacturer is a great turn around time... I waited 11 months for a .308 upper from DPMS last year. That was the other end of the spectrum, but it seems that 4-6 months is an average wait right now.

Good for you, and nice looking rifle