A couple of things

[gundogblue]

Hi All,
I stated in my last thread that I was ordering a Burris P.E.R.P mount and one of those Crossfire 6x24 scopes for my Bushmaster XM-15 E2s rifle (The SWFA $99.95 special). I got them a few days ago, and will put it all together today, the mount is really nice, and my initial impressions of the scope so far are positive. Granted to proof is in the pudding (shooting) but just looking through it, it's very clear, and brite on all powers.
Also I did'nt know that Bushmaster was bought up by Remington, I was just on Bushmaster's sight the other day, looking at their uppers, in particular the 22 or 24 inch target/varmitor, I've heard that AR-15's with target uppers can be very accurate. I do alot of informal bench-rest shooting and already have two Savage bolt guns , a model-12 in 22-250, and a 10FP in .308, both guns will group well under a 1/2 inch @ 100yrds. I've been kicking around the idea of getting another bolt gun in .223, but am thinking a nice, very accurate AR-15 would be a good alternative. I've read and heard that AR-15 uppers will fit right on my lower, the only one you have to worry about is the Colt because of differant size pins. Is it true that if I get a Bushmaster upper, or maybe even a Windam upper, that, that would be my best assurance that the upper would fit exactally as it should on my existing lower? The reason I ask is because I've gone through the "drop-in" parts thing for my .45 Kimber, and in every instance they've had to have some minor fitting done. The only other thing I would have to change is the existing trigger in my Bushmaster, Im sure to take full advantage of an accurate upper, I would need a good lite target trigger, I've seen them for between $200.00-$250.00, again many of them claim to be exact drop in parts, but as I've said, "been there done that". Even with the price of a new upper, and trigger, I would still be saveing a little better than $300.00 compaired to the price of a Savage FT/R, and since I already have two great bolt guns, an accurate AR would be a very good alternative. Any imput/advice will be greatly appriciated.
Paul

[Schuetzenman]

Cerberus an investement group owns a bunch of stuff. Here is an extract of their firearm holdings from Wiki.

Firearms - Acquired Bushmaster Firearms, Inc., from Windham, Maine native Dick Dyke for an undisclosed sum in April 2006, and purchased Remington Arms in April 2007. Under Cerberus direction, Bushmaster Firearms acquired Cobb Manufacturing, a well-respected manufacturer of large-caliber tactical rifles in August 2007. Cerberus also acquired DPMS Panther Arms December 14, 2007.[28][29] Remington Arms acquired Marlin Firearms in January 2008.[30][31] In October 2009, Remington Military products acquired silencer manufacturer Advanced Armament Corporation.[32] These companies were combined into the Freedom Group.

On triggers I like the Arnold Jewell 2-stage match trigger. I have 2 of them, they stay where they are adjusted to, no changing. For Barrels, Kreiger are the best IMO. With a Kreiger barrel anybody can build a sub 1/2 MOA AR15.

[gundogblue]

WOW, pardon my ignorance but I did'nt know a sub 1/2 inch AR-15 existed!! Can an upper with a Krieger barrel be purchased, or does it need to be built? I always read about you guys building up your AR-15's, I'd love to be able to build one, but I've never done anything like that, my biggest fear would be getting the bolt to head-space properly. Is there any books on the market that can take me through a step by step proceedure on how to build an upper? And what special tools are requiered to work on and build up an AR-15.
Thanks,
Paul

[Schuetzenman]

WOW, pardon my ignorance but I did'nt know a sub 1/2 inch AR-15 existed!! Can an upper with a Krieger barrel be purchased, or does it need to be built? I always read about you guys building up your AR-15's, I'd love to be able to build one, but I've never done anything like that, my biggest fear would be getting the bolt to head-space properly. Is there any books on the market that can take me through a step by step proceedure on how to build an upper? And what special tools are requiered to work on and build up an AR-15.
Thanks,
Paul

http://www.americangunsmith.com/ AGI the American Gunsmithing Institute though more than a little overly pretentious does have DVD / Videos on all kinds of weapon systems. They have one on the AR15. Also check out http://www.brownells.com/ Brownell's is a company that has been in business for a lonnnnnng time. They specialize in Gunsmithing tools, parts and I think they may carry the AGI videos as well.

I've built 3 AR15 rifles and improved countless others for accuracy. These are the things that impact accuracy the most; 1) Tightness of fit of the upper receiver to the lower receiver. 2) Barrel quality and how it is chambered and throated 3) Trigger quality 4) sights. Lastly, load prep / ammo selection. You aren't going to get 1 MOA or less out of Wolf, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, Uly or any other Russian steel cased ammo. You have to reload in most cases to tailor the load performance to the qualities of the barrel and chamber / throating.

Now to go over the first 4 items: If the upper receiver that is held on by two push pins is all wiggly in its fit to the lower receiver, accuracy is going to be poor. I have one rifle that the fit of upper to lower could not be improved by any means, it is tighter than frog pussy. OTOH my factory built Colt HBAR was so loose it would shoot patterns at 100 yards vs. a group no mater what load and bullet weight I put through it. In fact the Colt rifles poor assed performance is what got me motivated to find out how to make these things shoot accurately. After forking over $1500 bucks just before the Assault Weapon Ban of 1994 I was determined to salvage the weapon from something better than a 10 inch group at 100 yards! (I was seriously pissed at having spent all that money and the thing could be out shot by a $100 buck .22 LR bolt rifle).

The cure to the floppy upper to lower fit was to epoxy bed the upper to the lower receiver. It is not permanently attached as it would prevent cleaning or take down for clearing a serious jam. I put PAM the no stick cooking spray on the lower surfaces and roughed up the bottom edges of the upper so the epoxy would stick to it, the upper receiver. Then I degreased the upper surfaces and applied the epoxy resin that was filled with powdered steel. I then gently pressed the two together just enough that I could get the push pins to engage. I gently wiped off the excess the squeezed out of the joint being careful to not compress the fit of upper to lower. To do so would induce slack in the fit and allow them to wobble around later. I then left it sit for 24 hours and then broke the weapon apart. It might be pretty well stuck so you may need a plastic dead blow hammer to smack it with to get them to come apart. Using a razor sharp exacto knife I trimmed off the excess inside the receivers after I separated the upper from the lower. Finished. This alone made the weapon go from a 10" group to a 2.5 " group at 100 yards.

That was a big improvement but I still wasn't satisfied. Next I put on a free-float tube system under the GI handguards. I wanted to shoot Service Rifle Competition with the weapon and it has to look stock and at the time the A2 configuration was all that was allowed. Anyway, the free-float tube system took the rifle to about 1.75" groups, sometimes a bit less. I then put in the Arnold Jewell two stage match trigger system and got the weapon down to about 1.25 to 1.5" in performance. Lastly I sent out the barrel and had it Cryogenic treated at 300° Zero in IL. This took the weapon down to 3/4 to 1" groups. In as much as this is a GI type chrome lined 1 in 7 twist factory Colt barrel that's about all she'll do.

I later purchased a Krieger 20" stainless 1 in 8 twist barrel and put it on this same Colt rifle. Immediately accuracy dropped to below 1/2 MOA. With some load tinkering I was able to achieve sub .4" groups for 10 shot strings on a regular basis at 100 yards. The load was a 69 gr. Sierra Match King bullet, (then 1995 these bullets ran about 9 cents each.) along with Varget powder and a Remington 7 1/2 small rifle bench rest primer. Later on I built up a pure High Power match gun using this Krieger barrel and I put the original Colt factory barrel back on the weapon. Sub 1 MOA is adequate for Iron sights and Service Rifle match competition. The High Power match gun with a Leupold scope on top requires a top end quality barrel to be competitive, so that's why the Krieger went on it.

Brownells has all the tools necessary to build an AR15. Really there are less required than they will want to sell you. You need the receiver clamping blocks to protect the upper for barrel installation and torque down of the barrel nut / free float tube system if you go that way. You need some small pin punches to install the roll pins that hold in things like the bolt catch / release and the gas tubes. You will need a small hammer to drive in cross pins for the front sight assembly / gas blocks to secure them to the barrel unless you get one that is modified to screw to the barrel / clamp to the barrel using bolts. A large conventional screw driver and a small screw driver, not a Phillips type for either one. These will be used to install the buttstock on the buffer tube, install the pistol grip on the lower and help compress springs for the various detent pins that are in the weapon design. A very thin razor blade is often useful for helping to install the front take down pin detent system. If you get the AGI video, I'm sure they'll go over all that and show how best to do that. It is easy to launch the detent if your shim / razor blade slips out. I do not recommend doing this in a shag carpeted area or a very cluttered workshop or you can easily lose the spring and detent. I would go so far as to say you might want to do this inside a large plastic bag to contain the parts that will go flying if you slip. A 2 gallon zip lock bag that is transparent should have enough room for your hands and the lower receiver along with the small tools necessary to install the detent system.

That's enough, my fingers are getting tired.

[gundogblue]

What can I say, great post, the first thing Im gonna get is the AGI video, then Im gonna start getting my parts together. I've got alot to learn, on the brite side I know how to work up a load, I've been useing my Dillon for ammo in my AR, SAR-3, .45, and 9mm, but after I get this puppy built I'll use the single-stage press for my AR ammo. All I can say is thanks so much for ALL the GREAT info, I'll keep everyone posted on how my new project is progressing, but I might have to chime in now and then with a question or two, or three, or ten.
Thanks alot again for all the info,
Paul
P.S You might want to put a band-aid on your typeing finger

[Helen Keller]

accu-wedges work good for sloppyness.
I've even seen guys cut thin rows of duct tape and put them on the lower to tighten things up.


finding the right load makes a world of difference too. Factory ammo in my 11" shorty is OK 1-2" at 100yds , my loads I've been working on are floating around the 1/4" mark for grouping with irons.

just keep at it till you find what works.

[Schuetzenman]

What can I say, great post, the first thing Im gonna get is the AGI video, then Im gonna start getting my parts together. I've got alot to learn, on the brite side I know how to work up a load, I've been useing my Dillon for ammo in my AR, SAR-3, .45, and 9mm, but after I get this puppy built I'll use the single-stage press for my AR ammo. All I can say is thanks so much for ALL the GREAT info, I'll keep everyone posted on how my new project is progressing, but I might have to chime in now and then with a question or two, or three, or ten.
Thanks alot again for all the info,
Paul
P.S You might want to put a band-aid on your typeing finger

Don't sell your Dillon short. I use a 550B myself and except for the Varget not feeding well in the Dillon Powder Measure the 550B will do a fine job of making precision ammo. I do have to use a Redding 30 BR measure and then I will dribble on a digital scale to get perfect weight for serious match ammo. For general practice I'll use 844 or another ball powder to load even the Sierra on the 550. The ball powders like 844 or BLC-2 will meter properly. They are not as accurate but they do speed things up.

[gundogblue]

I too have a Dillon 550B, and I love it, but when I load for my 22-250, and .308 I use the single stage press only because I feel I can control each step a little better, I also use an RCBS chargemaster combo, and then recheck every load with a Pact digital scale, my loads never vary more than 1/10th grain. it's good to know that Varget does'nt meter well out of the Dillon powder dispenser, the only powders I've ever used with my Dillon is Bullseye, Unique and 748, which all work very good with the Dillon powder messure. I've found that my model-12 in 22-250 seems to likes 35.5grs of Varget the best, but my .308 seems to like Varget, IMR 4895, and Reloader-15 equally. Im useing RCBS small base dies for my .223, but since I want to develope a very accurate load for my AR do you think it would be worth it to get a set of Redding Comp dies?
Thanks,
Paul

[Schuetzenman]

The seating die with the micormeter would be of help in making match grade ammo. YOu can try specific seating depths and record the settings of the die. Then if you find a depth that works well with setting your bullet in relationship to the throating you will be able to reproduce it easily should you change bullet weights, makers or types. The shape of the ogive, (pronounced Oh-Jive) will alter seating depth greatly and that can effect accuracy greatly.

Varget will meter OK in a Dillon measure for a .30 caliber case like .308 or .30-06, just not for anything smaller than 6.5 Swedish.

[kimberkid]

Don't sell your Dillon short. I use a 550B myself and except for the Varget not feeding well in the Dillon Powder Measure the 550B will do a fine job of making precision ammo. I do have to use a Redding 30 BR measure and then I will dribble on a digital scale to get perfect weight for serious match ammo. For general practice I'll use 844 or another ball powder to load even the Sierra on the 550. The ball powders like 844 or BLC-2 will meter properly. They are not as accurate but they do speed things up.

I can testify to Schuetzenman claims about not selling your 550 short ... its what I load on ... I use BLC-2 with a Molly Coated 69 grain Sierra HPBT Match (but the molly really isn't necessary) When loading for a match I have an old RCBS single stage I weigh and measure every component, even weigh the projectiles to make sure everything is identical. This is an old target, shot with loads I ran through the Dillon ... I just don't bother keeping them anymore because to be honest I don't shoot it much anymore as its kind of boring. Out to 300 yards it groups 1" or just a hair over when you do your part. Its the one rifle my son says he wants when I'm done with it, so one day in the next 30 or so years it will be his.

I built this upper mainly using JP Enterprise parts I bought from Brownells its got the JP 24" barrel and because of the weight you are pretty much tied to the bench or prone ... a lightened YM Match bolt carrier ... I fixed the loose upper/lower fit with a JP Enterprise Tension Pin. It pulls the upper and lower together instead of pushing them apart ... when properly tightened they are rock solid. The only draw back is it takes an allan wrench to install/remove the pin.

Again, Schuetzenman is right on about the Jewell 2-stage match trigger ... in a couple of my other rifles I went cheap and got a Rock River 2-stage match trigger for about 1/2 the price ... its not adjustable but its OK. I've heard they tend to wear and will start doubling in a few thousand rounds ... that hasn't been my experience but several people have posted about it over the years.

In this one I keep thinking I'm going to get a Jewell 2-stage trigger but haven't ... before anyone started making precision/match triggers I made my own from a military trigger. I trimmed the disconnector and smoothed it out the hammer/trigger faces and lightened to 4.5 pounds then modified it into a set-trigger by putting a couple adjustment screws through the safety to take up the creep and over-travel and to make it a bit longer to use the pad of my finger comfortably I made a trigger shoe from an Ed Brown 1911 trigger. Its kind of junky by todays standards but I'm used to it.