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Thread: 12GA FH Shotgun/Rifles-8ga-4ga-585HE-700HE-Etc-

  1. #21
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    Here is picture of the 3.5" 20ga brass case in
    FBW falling block. Nice cases by RMC.Shotgun primer.
    Using 395 gr sabot get over 2700 fps. 600gr
    over 2200. Cases take many reloads with
    minimum sizing. One fired 8 times, still good
    and the slower powders get the velocity
    without the hard shock to cases, compared to
    fast shotgun powders. And the hotrod Hastings
    factory loads work in the gun also.

    Guy got new design 8 and 10 ga slugs with
    bigger hollow in the base. 1100gr for 8 and
    900gr for 10. More accurate in smooth bores.
    Will let everyone know when he is ready to
    make a few for shooters.Ed


  2. #22
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    I like singleshot break actions. I found another brand that will work
    to make heavy barrel 12 and 20 ga FH. By monoblocking in heavy
    barrels. It is the CBC Model SB. It has stock mounted like more
    expensive doubles and O/U. And nice shaped pistol grip stock.
    They have the nice stylish look like the Win 37 and Stevens 94.
    But they are heavier built, just need heavy barrel.
    I going to do a couple by monoblocking in heavy barrels, one 20ga
    and one my 585 HE like I did in the NEF.And they are 50 to 100 bucks.

    That action is a 1/8 inch wider than NEF, big barrel breach diameter
    like NEF 10/12 gauges. The bearing surfaces on the pivot is .300"
    wider, and pivot block is 1/4" wider. Pivot pin is 1/10" bigger.
    The action is a 1/2 inch taller, and extra diameter at breach end.
    In fact you could build a real hairy 8ga on its wider action, with
    a heavy barrel and a new pivot block welded on.Ed

  3. #23
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    More info on doing 20ga 3.5" in break actions. Nice
    to do them in falling blocks, but they aren't available
    for decent price. One choice, heavy barrel NEF 20ga,
    lengthen chamber, but barrels are too short for proper
    burning of large loads. Longer barrel better and helps
    with recoil. And in a break action looks better to me.
    Brass cases from RMC 7 bucks, decent price compared to
    600NE brass at twice that. Many guys want 20s along with
    the bigger. So you put a heavy barrel in a gun like the CBC
    which is low cost and put extra toward the barrel.
    Which is why I started research after getting a CBC,
    as it is about perfect for the 20ga added heavy barrel.
    Or in NEF, a little more. Or other singles, if heavy enough.
    And you still fire factory 3-3.5" slug loads. And 3.5" brass
    20ga will do same as 600NE factory loads, in a gun at
    1/20 the price. That is reason we are looking at monoblocking
    20ga barrels to make heavy strong guns, that can
    get great velocities, less cost.. Like 600gr to 2200 or more.
    Added heavy barrels in right actions will hold all the
    pressure the RMC brass operates at. And remember one
    experimenter has 20ga kills at 160 and 230 yds on deer.ED

  4. #24
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    More info on 10 and 8 gauge slugs. The guy got some
    made with deep hollowbase, 10ga 900gr, 8ga 1100gr.
    He will make them for a buck each.
    Bob Bigando in AZ. (bobiano at yahoo.com)
    Good price as they are nice hard shiny slugs.
    For seals for 10 and 8 gauge you can get regular
    card seals and nitro fiber wads, but plastic seals
    will do better, about a 100 fps in the faster loads.
    Plastic seals for 10 ga are at BPI, called - X10X.
    For 8ga I cut bottom seal part off of the 8ga wadcup
    that BPI has. For extended accuracy in smooth bores
    you can screw the seals on to the slugs and that
    will make the overall projectile more front heavy.
    Or better yet screw nitro fiber wads to the slug,
    like the Brenekkes are. Good smoothbore accuracy
    Use slugs with seals on, with slower RE17 that fills
    case so no fiber wads are need.Just seal and slug.ED


  5. #25
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    I talked about these 12ga jacketed full bore slugs earlier,
    shown below. Well now BPI has something similiar in
    their new catalog. We have tested some and one guy
    got a 3 shot group that is nearly touching at 50 yds
    in a scoped NEF Ultra slug gun. They can go real fast in
    our 3.5 RMC or our real long case.They are hollowpoint
    and fairly streamlined.I fill them with plastic glue for
    better streamlining.Fullbore and no sabots needed.
    Relatively light weight, to lessen recoil.Ed


  6. #26
    Senior Member Mark Ducati's Avatar

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    I've watched your thread about the 12ga FH from even last year....

    Looks like a really neat shotgun/rifle "because you can".... but in reality, what would it be used for? What kind of hunting? Buffalo? Elephant? Grizzly?

  7. #27
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    All of those big ones and with lighter streamlined slugs deer
    and hogs at little longer ranges.A good stopping cartridge
    for dangerous game.Ed

  8. #28
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    The 12ga Brenekke slugs with locked on base and the USS-S
    slugs I test have led to other combinations that I've put
    together using different slugs and wads. The object is
    60 yd accurate, economical slugs for reloading smoothbores
    that in the reloading process we can get more power also.
    Like the Lyman cast slugs in thickwall 10ga steel wads,
    with the slug glued in and wad cut off even with top of slug.
    Then with wad cut even, you load and can rollcrimp perfect.
    It makes a real nose heavy combination that is as accurate
    in smoothbores, as the expensive 10ga foster style slugs.
    Another one is the hollowbase 577 soft lead slugs that Dixie
    sells, I put in a thickwall 16ga wad that BPI has. I glue it in
    using Goop, a thick glue that hardwares sell. Epoxy works.
    Another one is 20ga ga thickwall wad with 54 cal hollowbase
    soft lead slugs. All these and others can be loaded for a fifth of
    factory for smoothbores, and be as accurate as foster slugs.
    And our slow powder loads seal good with wadcups.
    Representative one in middlle, 10ga.Slug glued in tight.Ed


  9. #29
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    Some wonder if only trying for foster slug accuracy at 200 feet
    or 60-70 yds wasn't the best goal in a smooth bore, But if you get it
    at 20% of the cost you've made a big gain. And most deer here are
    killed at 30 yards. And putting slugs inside of thickwall wadcups,
    with corresponding nitro wads under slug to get slug to the front
    of cup, slug glued in, makes them long and a little more accurate than
    foster slugs. Reason is the forcing cone in smoothbores. With the
    long nose, heavy combination of wadcup/slug, the back of the
    wadcup is in case yet while the front gets into the bore, past the
    forcing cone, for a straight start. Little better accuracy. Like the
    accurate US-S smoothbore locked on base slug, that is long.
    The longer the nose heavy slug/sabot combo is, the truer it flies.
    And most of these combinations work in brass cases with
    thick walls like RMC cases. They fit real tight for my cases. Ed

  10. #30
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    Penetration with slugs-Had a bunch of
    wood blocks up to 12" through.

    20ga load is a 54 cal 410 gr slug glued in wadcup.
    Gives the same effect as Brenekke with locked on base..
    Good in smoothbore at 50 yds.Goes through
    6" block of wood easy/

    Buckshot load in 4bore, 9 140gr 45cal balls at 1800,
    all zip through 3/4" OSB and keep going.
    In 4bore 760gr steel ball zips through 12" block of wood.
    going over 3200 fps. Wood is dried hard poplar.

    In 10ga 3.5" plastic case, a 900gr hardcast slug at 1800
    fps, through same kind of block easy. This slug I put
    on a screwed on base with plastic seal and wad.
    I've also put plastic seals and fiber wads on 8ga
    slugs to test later..

    12ga 600gr hard slug at 2100 zips through 12"
    wood block like it was putty.In a 3.5" RMC
    case in NEF.

    Anyone wanting one of my loaded 585HSMs to
    collect or look at, let me know. 750gr
    slug in this at 2800 in Enfield test gun.
    Soon have barrel in PH and put the real
    speed to it. About 33-3400.

    Will soon have the heavy 20 ga barrel mono-blocked
    into the 12ga barrel setup on the CBC break action.
    Make a nice looking gun. Also going to put the 8ga heavy
    barrel I had in Enfield for testing into falling block
    built like the 4 bore one.Maybe done by summer.
    Will be in one piece stock like 4bore.Ed

  11. #31
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    Finding real slow powders that works with shotgun primers,
    without starter powder. We found RE-17 and surplus 7383.
    To recap faster rifle powders we use -VV110,IMR 4759,4227..

    On the thread we've written about real slow powders like
    H-BMG we've used with a starter powder, IE 15gr of Blue dot,
    and H-BMG in amounts from 150 gr to 230gr in 3.5 and 3.85
    inch brass cases. And 3.5 " plastic cases. 860-1040 gr slugs.
    Tested in NEF with long heavy barrel.

    We finally got some RE-50,a really slow powder like H-BMG.
    It works with a real magnum shotgun primer with heavy slugs,
    860 gr on up, in 3.5" RMC brass, 3.5" plastic and our long
    brass case. I used 239 Fed primers. Lighter slugs
    only give squib loads.RE-50 Is a powder made like RE-17
    with the deterrant all through the grain of the powder,
    rather than all on the surface of the grains, so it will ignite
    easier, to get the initial combustion started.

    In brass case used 240gr with 860gr slug, 1950 fps
    and 220gr with 1040gr slug, 1750.
    In 3.5" plastic 860gr slug with 180gr RE-50, 1500 plus.
    Now these velocities aren't earth shattering as powder is real
    slow, but cases don't expand, not even plastic case base cup.
    And no starter powder. Nice thing is just fill cases
    leaving room for slug and seal and no worries about
    to high of peak pressures with heavy slugs
    or cases expanding to stick.

    Now to get 239 primers get Fed 12ga long red
    3.5" primed cases from BPI. I used Fed cases,and took out
    primers and used in other plastic and the brass cases.
    Some guys trying to free up 239 primers for us reloaders.
    Federal puts them in 3.5" mag 12ga loads and 10ga cases.

    Elsewhere it was reported someone may do a 16ga sabot.
    Also a guy got huge antlered buck with hotrod 20ga. Ed

  12. #32
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Cool

    Well it's not my cup of tea but I applaude your creativity and passion for this megga bore project.

  13. #33
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    I have a way to compare primers without powder and slugs,
    for a lot of my experimenting. I use a short 24"barrel 10ga.
    The barrel being shorter I can see the sparks and flame.
    I fire off the primers in case with no powder/slugs.

    I have just tested to see if magnum FED Fusion and Triple 7
    inline muzzleloading primers were as strong as FED 239.
    Just the two brands to test in the 10ga to compare flame,
    sparks and bang, and they were not as good as the 209
    Remington STS ones I like. They only put a few sparks out
    of the barrel.The REM 209 STS and Fed 209 M had 3" fire out the
    barrel and the Fed 239 had about 5-6" out the barrel. And 8ga
    Rem and Win kiln case hotrod primers 8" plus....

    Previous post I mention trying to start H-BMG slow powder with
    8ga kiln primers without success. Which is why we figured out
    using a starter powder like 15gr Blue Dot. Then it works great
    with any shotgun primer. Guys here when they see misfires with
    shotgun primers and H-BMG only, and the see starter powder loads
    go off in our big 12ga case like a tank cannon, they are
    flabbergasted at the difference.ED

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Ducati View Post
    I've watched your thread about the 12ga FH from even last year....

    Looks like a really neat shotgun/rifle "because you can".... but in reality, what would it be used for? What kind of hunting? Buffalo? Elephant? Grizzly?
    BIGGER............ Tyrannosaurus Rex ..... its being cloned......

  15. #35
    Moderator & Team GunsNet SILVER 11/2010 Tx Dogblaster's Avatar

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    Anyone wanting one of my loaded 585HSMs to
    collect or look at, let me know. 750gr
    slug in this at 2800 in Enfield test gun.
    Soon have barrel in PH and put the real
    speed to it. About 33-3400.
    Let me know how much and where to send it. These would awesome conversation pieces to add to my collection!!!

  16. #36
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    I mentioned in the threads earlier a 16GA FH case
    I made from bmg brass. Then I put it in a 16ga
    Stevens 94 break action by lengthening chamber
    for the 3.5" case. I kept speed and pressures down
    as the regular barrel on the gun had a thin muzzle.
    Now I found a thick heavy 16ga 32" alloy tube and
    I had extra Enfield test action, with the port
    opened for longer cases. I turned it 1.1" at the
    muzzle. Nice and heavy. It does a 630gr 16ga
    'Greg S' slug 2400 and 385 gr Lightfield 16ga slug
    to 3000, without the bottom 2/3 of the case
    having to be resized. With RE-17. I have these cases
    setup for shotgun primers.The Lightfield has it own
    seal on the locked on base and for the 630 gr use
    a BPGS and Flexseal over powder..

    For a loaded 585HSM, UPS shipping included $20-
    PM me for address. Ed

  17. #37
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    More info about the seal and cushion for 16ga
    630 gr slug. Plastic seal works best.A clearer description
    It is a BPGS type plastic seal, IE, a one way seal,
    and a flex type cushion. One way seals best.The seal/cushion,
    is the bottom part from 16ga wad cups.
    Like bottom half of bottom trap commander 16ga wad.Ed

  18. #38
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    Here is picture the CBC 20ga FH setup
    by mono-blocking a heavy 20 ga barrel
    into a CBC 12ga breech section.The 20 heavy
    barrel is threaded into the mono-block made
    by cutting off 12ga barrel. These CBC actions
    are taller and wider than other break actions
    and the locking lug block works better and
    nicer than other break actions.Also shown
    is 20ga 3.5" plastic and brass cases.
    Second picture is PH action with port lengthened
    for 585HSM, shown in action. I also have second
    change barrel for 700HE long case for this action.
    Imagine over 20,000 ft lbs in a PH, for 700HE.
    Also shown behind is a PH with 700H 3.25"..Ed


  19. #39
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    Here are some 20ga slugs/sabots we rigged up.
    I traded for whole box(hundreds) of 20ga Hammerhead
    slugs, in the picture. They had pulled slugs
    out of the locked on plastic base, so I glue them
    back in so base stays for fair smoothbore accuracy.
    And I also glued in various 458 bullets, as shown,
    which fit tight in cup, up to 500gr. They discard
    on impact. Fair accuracy at 50-70 yds. Less expensive
    shooting as I have pile of hard lead 458 slugs.

    Idea on 8ga FH. Looked at a TCR87 break action 10ga
    and the breach mono-block can take a little bigger
    barrel.If I find one I can afford(pricey) I'll do 8ga.
    These are very strong actions, a little smaller version
    of the action setup Colin put the 2bore in.
    Just put in straight 8ga bull barrel like NEF Ultra.ED


  20. #40
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    Here is picture of the 4bore in a more finished look.
    Second picture is closeup of cases and 1520 gr
    hollowbase hard slugs. The 4bore is smooth bore so
    hollowbase slugs are used. I set up gun with
    smoothbore as that saved large amount of time and
    money on the barrel. Ed




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