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Thread: 12GA FH Shotgun/Rifles-8ga-4ga-585HE-700HE-Etc-

  1. #1
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    12GA FH Shotgun/Rifles-8ga-4ga-585HE-700HE-Etc-

    Back again to post info about 12GA From Hell and all other of our
    big bore testing and experiments.First some pictures of our
    creations, 1st is our 12ga FH case, 2nd Savage 210 it was
    put in first by me,3rd comparison of the 12ga FH and my 700HE
    with a 700NE on left, 4th the big 4bore we have progressed to,
    5th the 6gal pail of water exploding when hit with 12ga 600gr slug at
    3000 fps,6th my 700HE 3.25 in a MRC PH action,
    the first action out of the shop for MRC, 7th
    the Nef we bored out to 8ga FH. 8th 4bore falling block
    we built with a FBW falling block in my 585HE for size comparison.
    .Much more posted later.Ed

    Last edited by hubel458; 08-13-2010 at 09:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    44th "Free" State
    Wow! I remember following this on the pervious Gunsnet. It still boggles my mind what you've done. Shooting that with any regularity would definitely give you a skeletal realignment and a permanent "Quasimoto" shuffle.
    Last edited by alismith; 08-13-2010 at 10:04 AM.

  3. #3
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    The secret it in gun design and weight.
    Like the 4bore is 28lbs, thumbhole stock and thick pad.
    All newbys who have shot it with lighter 11-12,000 ft lb loads
    handle it easy. They say wow what thrill.

    In 2nd picture my 700HE in big action, built
    in the same design of stock. Shoots 15,000
    ft lb loads easy.Ed

    Last edited by hubel458; 08-13-2010 at 10:50 AM.

  4. #4
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    Recoil- Even single shots can be tamed with weight and good stock.
    Like the NEf we did 8ga in, pictured above. My first NEF in 12GA FH
    in first picture. This gun has done more testing than any others here.
    I tested our long 3.85" case. the 3.5' RMC case, and 3" and 3.5"
    plastic cases with about every slug/sabot imaginable. Then
    a different old syle gun. Like 2nd picture, it is an 1887
    Win with long heavy barrel chambered for12ga FH 3.5" RMC case.
    3rd and 4th pictures, my 700H 3.25" belted case in Enfield boltgun
    and Savage 210. 5th pic,is FBW model L falling block with my
    585HE in it. It may be the first falling block ever to be
    set up in a 1 piece stock, The L is also big enough for
    16GA FH, my 700HE. 20ga barrel switches to it and use the 3.5"
    RMC brass and 3.5 " plastic in it. 20ga Cases and dies in 6th picture.Ed

    Last edited by hubel458; 08-15-2010 at 09:22 AM.

  5. #5
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    Here is some pictures of a variety of cases, cartridges,
    bullets, we have worked on for a number of years.
    1st is 499HE with cast bullet.
    2nd is 585 Short HE, that headspaces on mouth and
    extractor, works Mausers and other shorter actions.
    3rd is 12GA FH cases we made by putting on a 12ga base cup.
    Most are made with a screwed on rim.
    4th is a 12ga belted case made from 55cal boys brass.
    In picture are boys cases, 12ga belted, our 12gaFH with
    screwedon rim, 3.5" plastic 12ga case.
    I have this setup in a Mossy bolt gun with heavy barrel.
    5th is 4 bore cases, slugs and 2bore.
    Got a 4bore gun done, pictured above , but got to do a 2bore one.
    6th is my 585HE compared to 600OK.
    7th is 8ga brass case with 12ga and 28ga.
    We are boring out heavy barreled 10ga NEFs to 8ga.
    8th is the US-S slug with other 12ga ones we tested.
    It has the green locked on base, setup in 3 weights.
    It works decent in smooth bores..ED

    Last edited by hubel458; 08-30-2010 at 07:43 PM.

  6. #6
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    Comparison of slug type and speed for accuracy.
    Comparing better 12ga slugs for rifled and smooth.

    The US-S 570gr slug, with
    locked on base does 2-3" groups at 50 yds
    and about 9" at 100yds in heavy barrel.
    At 2000 fps in smooth bore.

    Now a Dixie 600gr slug in rifled barrel at 1300,
    2-3" at 50yds- about 9" at 100yds;
    BUT Dixie at 2000 2-3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds.
    It seems that slower slugs in rifled barrels losing velocity
    gets below the speed of sound at 100 yds which
    affects accuracy. Of course super heavy bullets, like
    12-1500gr, make it harder to start out fast
    enough to be supsonic at longer ranges.

    This accounts for the guys info I posted earlier about his
    high speed in rifled 20ga killing deer at 160 yds.
    And holding tighter groups at longer ranges.
    He kept velocity above the speed of sound
    further down range......Ed

  7. #7
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    About slugs going from supersonic to subsonic.I understand
    it is that blunt bullets that are in most shotgun slug/sabot loads,
    do not maintain best accuracy when passing back under the speed
    of sound like spire point bullets do.Speed of sound about 1150 fps.

    Now on, FED 239 primer in 8bore and the 4bore cases I have
    with shotgun primers. They almost as strong, from my primer tests
    as the kiln primers from WIN and REM.And they seem to dent easier
    in my 8ga testing than FED209 or the REM kiln ones. I get them from
    the 3.5" 10 and 12ga Fed primed magnum cases. Makes ignition surer.

    Lotta guys want to try Magtech 2.5" 12ga cases. Well they are
    stronger built than any of the old time brass cases I have seen.
    About dollar each, go in same chamber as plastic, same strength.
    The rifle looking cartridge in a slug gun is what some like..
    If you have break action load them with protruding slugs any length.
    If auto or pump in 3.5" chamber load them up to 3.1" overall
    with protruding slug and you can feed from magazine.
    RCBS has 12ga sizing dies. Loaded that length about the same power
    as a 3.5" plastic case roll crimped on same slug, magnum load.
    Don't leave air space in Magtech, but use wads and seals
    like in plastic cases..Ed

  8. #8
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    Here is picture of how we did the first 12ga FH cases,
    by putting a 12ga size rim pieceon the bmg brass case.
    We turn off old rim and threaded stub for add on rim.

    2nd pic is process of making my 700HE from bmg cases.
    A 06 case in pic for comparison.

    In both setups where we put the rims on cases for 12ga,
    or start the belt and swage case for 700HE; we
    then expand cases out straight to the size we need.Ed

    Last edited by hubel458; 08-27-2010 at 09:51 AM.

  9. #9
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    Here are some pictures of other fellas work and guns
    for the 12ga FH. 1st is Rob's Borchardt falling block,
    the first gun done in 12ga FH.My Savage was the second.
    2nd picture is a double that Rob is making by monoblocking
    in heavy rifled barrels onto a big 10ga frame.
    3rd and 4th an 8ga FH a fella on machinists forum setup.
    He uses the plastic kiln cases also, like we use in the
    bored out NEFs heavy barreled 10ga frames.
    5th is the cases Rob makes with headstamp on rim.
    6th is Bret's Savage with recoil reducer in the butt.Shown
    with the cover off.Recoil reducer is a spring cam deal that
    fit inside of the Savage stock.Ed

    Last edited by hubel458; 08-28-2010 at 09:32 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hubel458 View Post
    The secret it in gun design and weight.
    Like the 4bore is 28lbs, thumbhole stock and thick pad.
    Weight is one of the factors needed to figure recoil energy..

    OTOH, after hearing that kabooom and the smoke; how many people trust you when you tell them and offer to let them shoot it? lol

  11. #11
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Back in the Pacific Northwest!
    So, this would be your basic home defense weapon, right?

  12. #12
    Moderator & Team Gunsnet SILVER 01/2011 AKTexas's Avatar

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    Most North City of Mexico
    Talk about an anti-zombie douchebag weapon.

    Wow does it come in green?

  13. #13
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    Some of the plastic and laminated stocks are green.
    Some of the NEFs we get come in camo green pattern.
    That might work. Good home defense with 4 oz fine shot
    in 4bore??

    When I let others shoot the 4bore, 8bore or
    12ga FH or my 700HE, IE real hairy calibers, I load them moderate
    and the guys do ok.I don't slip them no knockout punch
    maximum loads.

    I think guy I show with 8ga of military style,sure did a nice
    looking job, much better than most of the 50cal stuff built
    that way.Ed

  14. #14
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    I found some 4bore plastic cases, 4 inches long, red
    colored, looking like an oversize 12ga Activ case, They are all
    plastic without a steel insert in the base like Activ cases
    have. No markings. I understand they are Fiocchi.
    They are the size for the 4bores that are about
    .950 inch bore. They are suitable for shot loads of moderate
    pressures. Guys loading them say they stretch out after
    a few loads. And they use about 3 oz shot.
    I will test them with a light buckshot loads
    of nine 45cal buckshot, 140 grains each.
    Total 1260gr, a little less than three ounces.
    In picture are plastic cases with brass ones and 3.3" 8ga.
    The base of case will be shimmed with strong wide tape to
    fit our chamber, cutting down on the stretching.Ed

  15. #15
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    When I made the 16ga FH, shown earlier in this thread,
    I had couple bmg cases that were partly worked down, and not
    yet expanded to 16ga mouth size. With a rim on it bigger than the
    base which was .770". Well, I've had guys ask if I would ever
    have bottlenecked cartridge. This led me to a way to do one.
    I made rim .770, left shoulder diameter, swage case sides straight,
    and expanded neck for 585" size. Cut the case to 3.7" length, and
    we have 585 Hubel Super Magnum, HSM. This will be my only
    bottle necked wildcat. I can make the mag box on the MRC PH
    long to feed case..Good for over 16,000 ft lbs, Regular 14,000 ft lbs.
    Will that put trex in small letters.....Pictured with 505 Gibbs to which
    it has nearly identical larger shape and good side taper for easy
    extraction, with heavy loads.And I can make cases like I do with
    my 700HE.Case hold 250gr ball powder under bullet.
    It'll work in FBW Model L..ED

  16. #16
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    Shot 4 ga plastic case with 7- 140 gr balls, 980gr total
    1800 fps. Used duplex load- Blue Dot 100gr, - Re17 150gr.
    A card and couple nitro wads under load and card over, glue gunned
    the card in. Shot loadedin two rows of 3 and 7th on bottom
    in recess in the middle of top wad. Red plastic case ok some
    expansion. Just about the limit for an all plastic case.

    Here is picture 0f 585HSM and some other cases.
    Gonna test a few in trusty ole Enfield I shot
    the 700H 3.25 in with extra rear lugs. Change barrel
    lengthen port.It won't do maximum real hotrod
    loads like when I put it in PH later, but it'll
    outrun trex.2nd pic... ED

  17. #17
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    In the 4ga plastic case a 760 gr ball at 2000 fps
    extracted ok. 3oz #2 shot load at 1500 ok.
    More 8ga stuff, fired a 2 ball, 820gr load at 1600
    with all the RE17 it had room for. We fired 1300
    gr cast full bore 8ga hard slug at 1700. Found a
    guy who can do them. Here is picture of his 10
    and 8ga cast fullbore hard slugs. 2nd picture is the
    585 HSM case sectioned with a competition case
    showing how strong brass is.Ed

  18. #18
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Wow! You passed right through Tyrannosaur Class into Brontosaur Class. Nothing alive, or dead, could stand up to those.

    If you could get 3 Grizzlies to line up in a row, you could get all three with one shot.

  19. #19
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    That is neat idea- Deoends on bullet hardness,
    The 4ga all plastic case good for 4 of my magnum
    pressure loads, with our slower powders,before
    it is expanded to much.
    Compared to the brass cases, at 50% more pressure,
    I've fired one 6 times and sized, and fired it 4 more.ED

  20. #20
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    We found some 585 hardcast, sized and lubed bullets.
    Works ok in my 585s at high speed. Shown in picture.

    We showed 10ga slugs above, Another easy to do
    10ga slug load is the 10ga wadcups for lead BPI has,
    with a 69cal swaged lead bullet in it that Dixie sells.
    It is hollowbased and 750gr.You can also cast .69-.70
    lead slugs for wadcup use. Also use the same wadcup
    for buckshot. Some are showing interest in 10ga
    due to NEF making them with heavy bull barrels.
    Another experimenter has got a bunch
    of RMC 3.5" brass 10ga cases, and will load and test
    the fullbore 10ga slugs shown above. RMC can do
    them about any time you want.Ed

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