Shtf weapons in California or New Jersey

[gpwasr10]

Throw in a shotgun, and I think you hit it on the nail. The mini-14 is an acceptable substitute, and can give a real advantage. The 357 and 44 combos were good advice, as well as the basic pistol rounds.

If I lived in one of the commie states, I'd probably go Mini-14, 12 ga pump, and the best midweight caliber(s) (38/357, 9mm, .40, 45) I could get good deals on. Just pick one and go from there.

Not a defensive shotgun guy myself... mostly because I firmly believe that a man with a good carbine simply outguns a guy with a shotgun (ask any cop), and so for a survivalist in either state (especially one on a budget) I would go with a 10/22 as a small game getter instead of the shotgun. I know that (as Shutz puts it) it's the best way to down birds "on the wing", it's use is almost limited to it and lets face it, IF you are on the move... you are not going to take the heavy shotgun platform over a 10/22 and a Mini-14.

Also, I would like to add that I believe that today's Mini is far more then an "acceptable" substitute... my 580 series mini has shown my it is the equal to any Semi Auto currently in production in all arenas save the ability to locate spares (the AR is simply in a league of it's own in this regard.). That being said, this is a very robust platform and seems built to last.

[gpwasr10]

am i the only one who thinks that alpha_male has no real world experiences with any types of firearms other than what his x-box has told him?

Nah, I think he is a little to accepting of a few of the gun myths that are widely spread amongst MANY Americans.

[American Rage]

Not a defensive shotgun guy myself... mostly because I firmly believe that a man with a good carbine simply outguns a guy with a shotgun (ask any cop), and so for a survivalist in either state (especially one on a budget) I would go with a 10/22 as a small game getter instead of the shotgun. I know that (as Shutz puts it) it's the best way to down birds "on the wing", it's use is almost limited to it and lets face it, IF you are on the move... you are not going to take the heavy shotgun platform over a 10/22 and a Mini-14.

Also, I would like to add that I believe that today's Mini is far more then an "acceptable" substitute... my 580 series mini has shown my it is the equal to any Semi Auto currently in production in all arenas save the ability to locate spares (the AR is simply in a league of it's own in this regard.). That being said, this is a very robust platform and seems built to last.

I agree that the carbine is superior, especially while "on the move." However, I can't see using one on a burglar on a suburban street. In my mind, my shotgun is much less dangerous to my neighbors than my carbine.

Also, I really think there is a good possibility that when the shtf many of us will hunker down in place. If we're all trapped on our respective suburban streets, it makes sense that the shotgun become the main defensive weapon in most scenarios. An exception might be large scale rioting or home invasions during anarchy, etc., etc.

Still, I suspect most defensive situations for the average person can be handled with a 12 or 20 ga., and that is why I champion them. Finally, a high quality shotgun can usually be bought cheaper than a high quality carbine. So for the average shmoe, the shotgun still makes a lot of sense.

But yeah, you're right. In my mind, the carbine is the superior defense weapon.

[gpwasr10]

I agree that the carbine is superior, especially while "on the move." However, I can't see using one on a burglar on a suburban street. In my mind, my shotgun is much less dangerous to my neighbors than my carbine.

Also, I really think there is a good possibility that when the shtf many of us will hunker down in place. If we're all trapped on our respective suburban streets, it makes sense that the shotgun become the main defensive weapon in most scenarios. An exception might be large scale rioting or home invasions during anarchy, etc., etc.

Still, I suspect most defensive situations for the average person can be handled with a 12 or 20 ga., and that is why I champion them. Finally, a high quality shotgun can usually be bought cheaper than a high quality carbine. So for the average shmoe, the shotgun still makes a lot of sense.

But yeah, you're right. In my mind, the carbine is the superior defense weapon.

But once again... I think in a home defense scenario the high cap pistol is a better choice then the venerable shotty...

[FunkyPertwee]

With only a few bad guys withen 25 yards, your not going to really see a lot of the advantages of carbines except them being shorter.

I grew up on pump actions and am fully capable of defending the homestead with a shotgun as my long arm. Compared to my AKs, my M590 feels lighter, points easier, balances much better, has a completely intuitive battery of arms, can be topped off quickly and easily while on the move.

Also I can't see shit without contacts or glasses, so if I grab a defensive longarm in a hurry while confused from sleeping, my experience with the platform combined with its natural pointing ability and the very nature of patterning itself, I have the advantage at close range with the shotgun over the AK.

I'm away from home right now, so I've got the AK with Kobra as my primary long arm right now. The Kobra with the chevron and dot combo helps make up for not being able to see at close ranges.

[Alpha_Male]

Hmmmm.

[gpwasr10]

With only a few bad guys withen 25 yards, your not going to really see a lot of the advantages of carbines except them being shorter.

I grew up on pump actions and am fully capable of defending the homestead with a shotgun as my long arm. Compared to my AKs, my M590 feels lighter, points easier, balances much better, has a completely intuitive battery of arms, can be topped off quickly and easily while on the move.

Also I can't see shit without contacts or glasses, so if I grab a defensive longarm in a hurry while confused from sleeping, my experience with the platform combined with its natural pointing ability and the very nature of patterning itself, I have the advantage at close range with the shotgun over the AK.

I'm away from home right now, so I've got the AK with Kobra as my primary long arm right now. The Kobra with the chevron and dot combo helps make up for not being able to see at close ranges.

Capacity, ease of reloading, less kick means easier to keep on target, more range, weight of platform... just to name a few.


My Truck Carbine is an AK as well, a AMD-65 and 4 mags... Hard to beat an AK for a solution to a sudden problem.

[gpwasr10]

I wasn't attacking you...I was attacking your argument. Or lack there of...



You wan't to explain your comment or just be a douche bag and not contribute to the conversation?

I think (in his own way) Deth was trying to say that some of your argument seems to be based on ages old shotgun myths that have been dis-proven many times over but are still held as gospel by many people (My father being one of them).

[mrkalashnikov]

Over the years I've had friends & acquaintances who live in nearby Chicago ask me about home-defense weapons. The laws there stipulate no handguns of any kind, nor any type of "assault" rifle, which to the Democrat hacks who enacted the laws means a rifle w/ a detachable box magazine. Even an M1 Carbine is considered an assault rifle there.

My recommendation to the freedom-deprived city dwellers has remained pretty consistent over the years:

1. Get a lever-action rifle. 30-30, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, etc.. It may not be a hicap semi-auto but w/ a little practice & the right ammo it will do a nice job of sending out a volume of lead at a brisk pace, even if the reload time is comparatively slow.

2. Get a pump-action shotgun. 12, 16, or 20 gauge, loaded w/ a heavy shot. Same deal w/ practice & familiarity of weapon.

[Alpha_Male]

I think (in his own way) Deth was trying to say that some of your argument seems to be based on ages old shotgun myths that have been dis-proven many times over but are still held as gospel by many people (My father being one of them).

Practical shooting competitions like those of us in 3 gun don't expect the gun to "spread" anymore than a few inches. At 10 yards, practical distance, your going to see a cluster of 6-8inches with double odd buck. Obviously the cluster is going to widen slightly after that. If you have a human target that has an average width of 14-16inches then a center mass hit is going to do it's job. If you use a shot gun for what it's intended, putting multiple projectiles in a clustered area, your going to hit a combination of organs even if your off a little. I say that because no one shoots sub moa groups at 2:00am when they just woke up from an intruder.


EDIT: Notice the size of targets

[FunkyPertwee]

Capacity, ease of reloading, less kick means easier to keep on target, more range, weight of platform... just to name a few.


My Truck Carbine is an AK as well, a AMD-65 and 4 mags... Hard to beat an AK for a solution to a sudden problem.

I understand the advantages. Its just that I don't see them providing much in a limited engagement.

I'm not scared of recoil, I point a shotgun just as fast if not faster than an AK, and I can't shoot at 100 yards without my contacts in anyway.

Two guys with long arms, one with an AK and another with a shotgun, aren't going to see much advantage over each other at close range IMO.

[gpwasr10]

I understand the advantages. Its just that I don't see them providing much in a limited engagement.

I'm not scared of recoil, I point a shotgun just as fast if not faster than an AK, and I can't shoot at 100 yards without my contacts in anyway.

Two guys with long arms, one with an AK and another with a shotgun, aren't going to see much advantage over each other at close range IMO.

Unless they both are in cover.... Then the Shotgun guy is going to see a huge advantage opening up his belly. I have yet to see the shotgun that can penetrate like a rifle round.

[FunkyPertwee]

If they get past this and that, I guess it won't matter much whether I use this or that.






I love variety .


BTW I live in Jurassic Park.

[American Rage]

But once again... I think in a home defense scenario the high cap pistol is a better choice then the venerable shotty...

Strange as it may seem, in some weird way I must half heartedly agree, b/c I backup up my shotguns with a pair of 9mms. Spread/hidden throughout the house, it really depends on which room I'm in as to what weapon I'd grab.

Regardless, I think both have their place. My preference toward unarmored targets would be the shotgun, followed by a high capacity pistol.

I see my current collection as geared toward the following:

22lr: practice, last ditch tool

pistol: personal defense outside of the home if ever necessary, secondary defense inside of home

shotgun: 1st choice against home invaders, burglars, peeping toms, also handy for shtf natural disasters and small riots. They cover my yard nicely, and the line of site from inside my home toward my neighbor's homes aligns nicely in my favor.

rifle: if the world ever ends and the zombies are coming down the street, or perhaps some commies will make some very poor decisions, though hopefully not. That is when the rifle is handy to have in my mind. It has superior range, accuracy, reloadability, firepower and stopping power to other firearms such as shotguns and handguns.

Remember, for every tool there's a reason, and for every reason there is a tool.

[Izzy]

Shotguns are good.

[gpwasr10]

If they get past this and that, I guess it won't matter much whether I use this or that.






I love variety .


BTW I live in Jurassic Park.

You live in a place I like to call... "Awesomedudeworld". LOL!

[gpwasr10]

Strange as it may seem, in some weird way I must half heartedly agree, b/c I backup up my shotguns with a pair of 9mms. Spread/hidden throughout the house, it really depends on which room I'm in as to what weapon I'd grab.

Regardless, I think both have their place. My preference toward unarmored targets would be the shotgun, followed by a high capacity pistol.

I see my current collection as geared toward the following:

22lr: practice, last ditch tool

pistol: personal defense outside of the home if ever necessary, secondary defense inside of home

shotgun: 1st choice against home invaders, burglars, peeping toms, also handy for shtf natural disasters and small riots. They cover my yard nicely, and the line of site from inside my home toward my neighbor's homes aligns nicely in my favor.

rifle: if the world ever ends and the zombies are coming down the street, or perhaps some commies will make some very poor decisions, though hopefully not. That is when the rifle is handy to have in my mind. It has superior range, accuracy, reloadability, firepower and stopping power to other firearms such as shotguns and handguns.

Remember, for every tool there's a reason, and for every reason there is a tool.

My wife says that I am a "tool for all seasons"! LOL, I tend to agree. ;-)

Personally after practicing clearing my house with my 1300 defender, I just felt to vulnerable to a weapon grab, or a snag on something during a quick turn around situation. Though, admittedly, this may have more to do with a lack of any real training on my part then a fault with the weapon itself.

Although it makes me think that for the vast majority of Americans a good handgun might be a better choice (Providing they practice with it).

[American Rage]

My wife says that I am a "tool for all seasons"! LOL, I tend to agree. ;-)

Personally after practicing clearing my house with my 1300 defender, I just felt to vulnerable to a weapon grab, or a snag on something during a quick turn around situation. Though, admittedly, this may have more to do with a lack of any real training on my part then a fault with the weapon itself.

Although it makes me think that for the vast majority of Americans a good handgun might be a better choice (Providing they practice with it).

No, you make complete sense. LOL! About the handgun, only your wife knows about the other.

Seriously, I think it depends on the layout of the house and one's strategy. If someone has multiple family members in a home, they may have to clear the house.

OTOH, My home has several points which are perfect for blasting whatever comes thru that doorway.

I'm single, so I don't worry so much about clearing my home. My strategy is to work my way nearest the chokepoint nearest the noise, and set up the ambush. If anybody comes past the point, BOOM! Likewise, I have no family to worry about so I only worry about my neighbors, and that would be hard to do with a shotgun and the layout of my home.

[deth502]

If you want my opinion, im not saying that a shotgun cant be used in a defensive situation. many ppl feel comfortable with them. that said, imo, the only reason to have a defensive shotgun is if your planning on defending against rabid squirrel, rabbit, and grouse. anything the size of a small dog or bigger, ill take a rifle, carbine, pistol, ect...

[deth502]