I've Sinned & Bought Black Rifle Receivers; What next?

[El Laton Caliente]

I tripped and fell into the black side!

I down loaded the AR builder's guide.

Now I need kits for the five Palmeto Receivers I bought.

My thoughts on this previously have been to build a 16" CAR Style, a 18" or 20" standard model (M4?) and one as a varmet.

What kits to buy?
Who's kits?
Is there a tool set for the specialty tools so I can get them all at once?
Gas op? I never have liked the "sproing" of the early ARs
I like the looks of the mag pull stock over the old CAR style, comments?

I've never owned an AR before. Now I have five receivers coming...

[ltorlo64]

I tripped and fell into the black side!

I down loaded the AR builder's guide.

Now I need kits for the five Palmeto Receivers I bought.

My thoughts on this previously have been to build a 16" CAR Style, a 18" or 20" standard model (M4?) and one as a varmet.

What kits to buy?
Who's kits?
Is there a tool set for the specialty tools so I can get them all at once?
Gas op? I never have liked the "sproing" of the early ARs
I like the looks of the mag pull stock over the old CAR style, comments?

I've never owned an AR before. Now I have five receivers coming...

Unless you want to buy everything seperately, it seems the best kits come from Del-Ton or Model-1 Sales. Both will have everything you need except the receiver and you can customize the kit. Del-Ton can take up to 8 weeks to fill the order, but it is worth the wait. My friend who uses Model-1 Kits is also very satisfied. Good luck!

[NAPOTS]

A word of caution on Model 1 Sales, I and many others received fradulent credit card charges after placing an order with them. I personally would take my business elsewhere. BCM seems to be held in high regard.

Since you have 5 lowers, Here is what I would build;

1. A lightweight KISS 16" carbine. Flattop if you want but I'd be ok even with an A1 upper. Lightweight profile barrel, collapsable stock of your choise.
2. M16A1 clone build. There are a lot of kits floating around out there. The A2 receiver is not technically correct for this built but few will notice.
3. 20" A2 build. Everyone should have one. I'd try and get a govt profile barrel. I have an HBAR and it is pretty heavy.
4. 20" heavy barrel flat top. put a free float handguard on it and a decent scope. you should be able to dip well below MOA with this kind of a setup.
5. 16" tacticool carbine. Printerman this one up!

If you buy the uppers already complete you don't really need any tools to put the lower together. A lower receiver block and a decent set of punches helps but is not necessary.

[El Laton Caliente]

5. 16" tacticool carbine. Printerman this one up!

LOL A nice light weight 16" carbine with 50 lbs of shit hung off it...

So far my version of tacticool is night sites and a sling. An optic on some of the more accurate rifles...

[Partisan1983]

Since you live in a very friendly NFA I would definitely SBR one.

A middy or a dissy would be cool to. One of them are gonna be my next AR.

[El Laton Caliente]

Since you live in a very friendly NFA I would definitely SBR one.

A middy or a dissy would be cool to. One of them are gonna be my next AR.

Since I have a Yugo M92 and a Bulgie Krink kits stashed away... I've been avoiding NFA weapons and was thinking pistols, but just can't bring myself to do a pistol build with the two. It just wouldn't be justice. I've aways wanted a super shorty AR, maybe 10" or 11"....

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, I 2nd the del-ton recommendation. I have three AR's built using their kits. I opted for the flat top version with chrome lined barrels. All of mine are 16" versions - one m4gery and two middies.

All three will shoot 1 MOA or better with Privi SS109 - using 4x optics.

Here's a pic of two of em:

[old Grump]

Q. I've Sinned & Bought Black Rifle Receivers; What next?

A. Paint them robin egg blue

[El Laton Caliente]

Q. I've Sinned & Bought Black Rifle Receivers; What next?

A. Paint them robin egg blue

LMAO!

[Schuetzenman]

I tripped and fell into the black side!

I down loaded the AR builder's guide.

Now I need kits for the five Palmeto Receivers I bought.

My thoughts on this previously have been to build a 16" CAR Style, a 18" or 20" standard model (M4?) and one as a varmet.

What kits to buy?
Who's kits?
Is there a tool set for the specialty tools so I can get them all at once?
Gas op? I never have liked the "sproing" of the early ARs
I like the looks of the mag pull stock over the old CAR style, comments?

I've never owned an AR before. Now I have five receivers coming...

On kits, Delton would be my pick. I've also used DPMs with no problems.
Special Tools ... See Brownell's one of our sponsors. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2...R-AR-15-M16-M4 Ok her's a link to a page with armorer's kits. I would say you don't have to spend that much money though. What you need as a minimum is; an upper receiver block to hold the upper for barrel installation. If you want a carbine, you will need th ecarbine spanner wrench. If you want to free float the barrel using free float handguards or the type that fit under GI looking handguards you need a free float tub barrel nut wrench. You will need some small pin punches, roll pin punches if you want to splurge a bit. The Bolt release is roll pinned into the upper receiver. A small flat blade screw driver, a set of allen wrenches as some pistol grips and other after market bits use allen bolts. A larger flat blade screw driver for pistol grip installation and buttstock installation to the buffer tube.

M4 is a 14.5 " barrel for the Military, M4geries are 16" barrels for us civilians. A 20" can be an A2 if fixed carry handle sights or an A3 if flat top with removable carry handle sight system. I would recommend you only build with flat top receivers as this gives you the widest level of flexibility to choose between: Optics both red dot and scopes as well as Iron sights of some sort. 18" is for what is called a Special Purpose Rifle or Designated Marksman Rifle. Think Sniper for the most part but not as long as the 20" rifles. IMHO if you want to build a special long range weapon, use a 20" barrel. You want a close range weapon, use the 16" barrels unless you are willing to go NFA and build a 10, 12 or 14.5" of some sort.

The CTR stock by Magpul is superior to the Car or even M4's T-6 stock just becaue it does lock solid and no rattle or wiggle. The Uber is also solid but I don't like the way it functions. I think it looks like it could snag on stuff. For a long range rifle their PRS or Precision Rifle Stock is without competition IMO. I don't have one but I sure wish I did and do plan to add one to my match rifle eventually.

On piston vs. direct impingement; Piston I think is suitible for a close range not as precise in accuracy but more reliable in function weapon. They do stay clean on the bolt group and cool, no steel swelling up or getting dirty. Direct impigement is very accurate as there are no moving parts over the barrel to screw with barrel harnonics / accuracy. If I was to get a piston system I'd try the Osprey based on an SOT buddy of mine that builds full auto M16's and has used every piston system on the market. He says for th emoney you can't beat the Osprey.

All AR rifles are going to Sproing as you put it. That's the buffer tube spring compressing to dampen the bolt carrier group's rearward motion. There is no way to have no spring except maybe to put in one of the hydraulic buffer systems. Frankly after a few minutes of shooting one I forget about the sproing as I'm concentraiting on shooting the weapon. The Sproing is trival obcession IMO. If people were shooting at you and you only had an AR to defend yourself do you really think you'd be all torn up about the spring noise? No, I think we will all have other things to focus our minds on. My 2 cents.


Here's my mid length gas system AR as it started out. It was direct impingement at this time. Later to be converted to piston drive.

Here is is with all the bells and whistles added, piston drive at this time and all decked out with an M4-1000 suppressor. Speaking of Midlength gas systems, IMO they are preferable to the CAR or M4 lengh 7" gas sytems. Chamber pressure is lower so extraction is going to be easier. They have a 9" gas tube so it takes just a tad longer to unlock the bolt from the barrel extension. 20" rifles have a 12" gas tube if my memory serves me and that is the length this weapon design was supposed to have. Anything shorter leads to higher chamber pressure at unlock of the bolt. That puts more strain on the extracter and is the reson for these little rubber O-rings or D rings and springs to put more extracter pressure on the case rim to hang on to it in short CAR length gas systems.

[stinker]

I've Sinned & Bought Black Rifle Receivers

Get down on your prayer rug facing towards the picatinny arsenal, light a candle and say ten Mikhail Kalashnikov's ye heathen swine!

[El Laton Caliente]

Get down on your prayer rug facing towards the picatinny arsenal, light a candle and say ten Mikhail Kalashnikov's ye heathen swine!

LMAO!!! Again

[El Laton Caliente]

Schuetzenman, OMG this is going to be an educational... attept!

[Schuetzenman]

Schuetzenman, OMG this is going to be an educational... attempt!

The basic AR15 is a pice of cake easy to build really. I can build a flat top in 40 to 50 minutes from a kit. There is a staggering variety of stocks, handguards, rail sytems, sights, grips, barrel profiles, trigger systems, etc. The hardest thing is making up one's mind on exactly what the weapon is going to be configured like. You want a single stage stock trigger or do you want a 2 stage tuneable match trigger? The first is cheap, the match triggers run $200 to $300 bucks. Free float rail handguards range a widely in cost. I'm cheap so I don't go out of my way to buy big names most of the time. But sometimes I do. My rifle pictured has a Daniel Defense Omega rail system, it isn't cheap but it isn't the highest priced rail handguard system. It is free floating and uses the stock barrel nut to clamp to. It installs with 4 allen set screws that pinch the barrel nut. The lower half attahces to the upper rail half with some screws that have thread locker paste on them.

If you were only going to build 1 or 2 I'd recommend you buy complete uppers as then you wouldn't need the receiver blocks or any barrel nut or free float tube wrenches. The lowers are very easy to put together with the one exception of the spring detent pin that captures the front push pin. Those can be some tricky bastards to get in and I recommend assembling it inside a big trash bag. When you slip the spring goes shooting at mac 5 round the room fif NOT inside a big trash bag. Oh and wear safety glasses, don't want that spring and detent pin putting your eye out. Best thing to use is a thin pice of shim stock or one of those old safety razor blades. You use that to hold the spring and detent compressed in so you can get the push pin in the hole of the receiver. That pin ha a slot in it that the detent pin will ride in and prevent pulling the push pin out and dropping it once installed properly.

[NAPOTS]

The basic AR15 is a pice of cake easy to build really. I can build a flat top in 40 to 50 minutes from a kit. There is a staggering variety of stocks, handguards, rail sytems, sights, grips, barrel profiles, trigger systems, etc. The hardest thing is making up one's mind on exactly what the weapon is going to be configured like. You want a single stage stock trigger or do you want a 2 stage tuneable match trigger? The first is cheap, the match triggers run $200 to $300 bucks. Free float rail handguards range a widely in cost. I'm cheap so I don't go out of my way to buy big names most of the time. But sometimes I do. My rifle pictured has a Daniel Defense Omega rail system, it isn't cheap but it isn't the highest priced rail handguard system. It is free floating and uses the stock barrel nut to clamp to. It installs with 4 allen set screws that pinch the barrel nut. The lower half attahces to the upper rail half with some screws that have thread locker paste on them.

If you were only going to build 1 or 2 I'd recommend you buy complete uppers as then you wouldn't need the receiver blocks or any barrel nut or free float tube wrenches. The lowers are very easy to put together with the one exception of the spring detent pin that captures the front push pin. Those can be some tricky bastards to get in and I recommend assembling it inside a big trash bag. When you slip the spring goes shooting at mac 5 round the room fif NOT inside a big trash bag. Oh and wear safety glasses, don't want that spring and detent pin putting your eye out. Best thing to use is a thin pice of shim stock or one of those old safety razor blades. You use that to hold the spring and detent compressed in so you can get the push pin in the hole of the receiver. That pin ha a slot in it that the detent pin will ride in and prevent pulling the push pin out and dropping it once installed properly.

The last lower I built I used a putty/spackle knife to hold the detent pin in while I inserted the takedown pin. That is the trickiest part.

You can install the roll pins easily without a punch. Use a pair of channel locks. Cover the jaws in masking tape to protect the finish on the lower. cover the receiver around the pin hole with masking tape and use the channel lock to gently "press" the pin into the hole. a little clp on the pin makes it go in easier. Be very careful with the trigger guard roll pin. It is easy to break the ear off of the lower. If you are using a punch, you need to make sure the tang/ear on the lower is supported from underneath before you tap it in. Also, it is possible to install the trigger guard backwards and the only way to fix it is to cut the guard in half with a dremel cut off wheel.

I have had a RRA 2 stage trigger but now use Geissele's.

The sproing is the best part IMHO. BTW you can hear the difference in the sproing when your bolt locks back. That is kinda nice.

[ltorlo64]

Be very careful with the trigger guard roll pin. It is easy to break the ear off of the lower. If you are using a punch, you need to make sure the tang/ear on the lower is supported from underneath before you tap it in.

Granted, I am not the most mechanically inclined guy, but this part took me almost 2 hours. I was so petrified of breaking that ear off, I went very slow.

[NAPOTS]

Granted, I am not the most mechanically inclined guy, but this part took me almost 2 hours. I was so petrified of breaking that ear off, I went very slow.

The channel lock trick makes it go really easy! I had to do it that way on the first lower I built because I didn't have a punch the right size. It went in very smooth.

[Nautilus]

Funny... this was almost exactly the post I was going to make today. I've got 5 PSA receivers on their way as well, ordered them yesterday afternoon. lol

[Mark Ducati]

A word of caution on Model 1 Sales, I and many others received fradulent credit card charges after placing an order with them. I personally would take my business elsewhere. BCM seems to be held in high regard.

Since you have 5 lowers, Here is what I would build;

1. A lightweight KISS 16" carbine. Flattop if you want but I'd be ok even with an A1 upper. Lightweight profile barrel, collapsable stock of your choise.
2. M16A1 clone build. There are a lot of kits floating around out there. The A2 receiver is not technically correct for this built but few will notice.
3. 20" A2 build. Everyone should have one. I'd try and get a govt profile barrel. I have an HBAR and it is pretty heavy.
4. 20" heavy barrel flat top. put a free float handguard on it and a decent scope. you should be able to dip well below MOA with this kind of a setup.
5. 16" tacticool carbine. Printerman this one up!

If you buy the uppers already complete you don't really need any tools to put the lower together. A lower receiver block and a decent set of punches helps but is not necessary.

I'm sorry to hear of your problems with M1S's... but I've purchased several uppers from them in the past. The last upper I bought about year ago was a 20" standard AR upper... the finish was identical to the LAR Grizzly lower I bought a few years earlier (looks exactly like the black teflon type finish that comes on current DPMS rifles).

Anyway, the complete upper I bought kept jamming... the bullet kept striking chamber face. I thought that it was perhaps because the barrel chamber face didn't have the new style extended M4 type feed ramps. The guy at M1S's said that they test each and every upper that goes out and that he didn't think that was the problem, none the less, they took the upper back and milled out the M4 style feed ramps at my request and didn't charge me anything. It still jammed!

So, I called M1S's back, and the guy said that it could possibly be due to my mag catch button (the one on the left side of the rifle), so he sent me a new mag catch, again at no charge... that fixed the problem. The aftermarket mag catch I had (I don't know where I got it, I have a hodge pot of spare parts from everywhere) wasn't allowing the mag to insert that last few thousandth's of an inch and the bullets wouldn't feed up the ramp.

Anyway, I've had nothing but stellar service from M1S's and wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again.

[abpt1]

On kits, Delton would be my pick. I've also used DPMs with no problems.
Special Tools ... See Brownell's one of our sponsors. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2...R-AR-15-M16-M4 Ok her's a link to a page with armorer's kits. I would say you don't have to spend that much money though. What you need as a minimum is; an upper receiver block to hold the upper for barrel installation. If you want a carbine, you will need th ecarbine spanner wrench. If you want to free float the barrel using free float handguards or the type that fit under GI looking handguards you need a free float tub barrel nut wrench. You will need some small pin punches, roll pin punches if you want to splurge a bit. The Bolt release is roll pinned into the upper receiver. A small flat blade screw driver, a set of allen wrenches as some pistol grips and other after market bits use allen bolts. A larger flat blade screw driver for pistol grip installation and buttstock installation to the buffer tube.

M4 is a 14.5 " barrel for the Military, M4geries are 16" barrels for us civilians. A 20" can be an A2 if fixed carry handle sights or an A3 if flat top with removable carry handle sight system. I would recommend you only build with flat top receivers as this gives you the widest level of flexibility to choose between: Optics both red dot and scopes as well as Iron sights of some sort. 18" is for what is called a Special Purpose Rifle or Designated Marksman Rifle. Think Sniper for the most part but not as long as the 20" rifles. IMHO if you want to build a special long range weapon, use a 20" barrel. You want a close range weapon, use the 16" barrels unless you are willing to go NFA and build a 10, 12 or 14.5" of some sort.

The CTR stock by Magpul is superior to the Car or even M4's T-6 stock just becaue it does lock solid and no rattle or wiggle. The Uber is also solid but I don't like the way it functions. I think it looks like it could snag on stuff. For a long range rifle their PRS or Precision Rifle Stock is without competition IMO. I don't have one but I sure wish I did and do plan to add one to my match rifle eventually.

On piston vs. direct impingement; Piston I think is suitible for a close range not as precise in accuracy but more reliable in function weapon. They do stay clean on the bolt group and cool, no steel swelling up or getting dirty. Direct impigement is very accurate as there are no moving parts over the barrel to screw with barrel harnonics / accuracy. If I was to get a piston system I'd try the Osprey based on an SOT buddy of mine that builds full auto M16's and has used every piston system on the market. He says for th emoney you can't beat the Osprey.

All AR rifles are going to Sproing as you put it. That's the buffer tube spring compressing to dampen the bolt carrier group's rearward motion. There is no way to have no spring except maybe to put in one of the hydraulic buffer systems. Frankly after a few minutes of shooting one I forget about the sproing as I'm concentraiting on shooting the weapon. The Sproing is trival obcession IMO. If people were shooting at you and you only had an AR to defend yourself do you really think you'd be all torn up about the spring noise? No, I think we will all have other things to focus our minds on. My 2 cents.


Here's my mid length gas system AR as it started out. It was direct impingement at this time. Later to be converted to piston drive.

Here is is with all the bells and whistles added, piston drive at this time and all decked out with an M4-1000 suppressor. Speaking of Midlength gas systems, IMO they are preferable to the CAR or M4 lengh 7" gas sytems. Chamber pressure is lower so extraction is going to be easier. They have a 9" gas tube so it takes just a tad longer to unlock the bolt from the barrel extension. 20" rifles have a 12" gas tube if my memory serves me and that is the length this weapon design was supposed to have. Anything shorter leads to higher chamber pressure at unlock of the bolt. That puts more strain on the extracter and is the reson for these little rubber O-rings or D rings and springs to put more extracter pressure on the case rim to hang on to it in short CAR length gas systems.

Last upper I bought was the 20in light weight delton complete upper for 475. or there is a dealer on arfcom that has a good deal on LMT the 10.5 upper for 480.. But if your looking for the very best then go to http://www.laruetactical.com/