Pagan mom outraged after school gives son Bible

[Mark Ducati]

Lefty gets a quarter point added for another poster joining.
Current score: 4.75

I'll give him another quarter point because I feel sorry for him and another quarter point just because it is Christmas.
Current Score 5.50

BTW, LAGC, I don't recall God ever commanding someone to burn their daughter in the bible or to give their wife to another ruler, or to smash little children's heads in... What I mean is, I'm aware of the "stories" (my term for your benefit) in the bible, which is full of "accountings" (my term) of what "man" has chosen to do of his own accord. As for wars, yes God has delivered enemies of the israelites into their hands and commanded them to attack and promised his protection.

You and I may not understand God's infinite wisdom... but who are you and I to judge God? When you meet Him, you can ask Him "why?", I know I have a lot of questions for Him.

[LAGC]

I'll give him another quarter point because I feel sorry for him and another quarter point just because it is Christmas.
Current Score 5.50

Hey, I thought my score was supposed to be going DOWN, not UP?!

BTW, LAGC, I don't recall God ever commanding someone to burn their daughter in the bible or to give their wife to another ruler, or to smash little children's heads in... What I mean is, I'm aware of the "stories" (my term for your benefit) in the bible, which is full of "accountings" (my term) of what "man" has chosen to do of his own accord. As for wars, yes God has delivered enemies of the israelites into their hands and commanded them to attack and promised his protection.

Oh boy. You really ought to brush up on your Old Testament, as there's some seriously fucked up shit in there. God was a vicious deity, just full of Smite:

29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.ss

32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the Lord delivered them into his hands.33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.s

34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.s35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, [b]Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the Lord, and I cannot go back.36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the Lord, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the Lord hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.s38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,s40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.

(JUDGES 11:29-40)

The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon, which is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible before the Protestants censored it out, has even more gruesome tales of human sacrifice. No wonder they got rid of it!

Plenty of other examples of God encouraging ritual human sacrifice here: http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm

As for those other things I mentioned, I don't remember the verses off the top of my head, but I'll try to look them up later (unless someone else wants to help me out). But trust me, they are in there.

You and I may not understand God's infinite wisdom... but who are you and I to judge God? When you meet Him, you can ask Him "why?", I know I have a lot of questions for Him.

Oh believe me, if even half of the horrible shit in the Bible is true, I will have plenty of questions for God indeed. And I certainly have no desire to spend eternity with that tyrant, in any case. I'd rather hang with all the cool people in Hell.

[ATAK, Inc.]

LAGC, man has acted in the name of god since the beginning of time. That does not mean it was sanctioned by god.

[Focused Gunfire]

You do not have the right not to be offended. The mother is way overreacting. The bible is just a book. Its name even means book. Reading the bible does not make you a Christian. Considering how much influence it has in history, it should be on every school’s recommended reading list. We need to get back to using original sources in teaching.

As for the kids age, he is old enough to start seeing the world for its possibilities. Both good and bad. Kids need to grow up you know.

[Mark Ducati]

I'd rather hang with all the cool people in Hell.

LAGC, I'd wage you'd figure this guy to be a "kook"... but a guy named Bill Wiese wrote a book called "28 Minutes in Hell". (video title says 23, but I think the book was 28).



I don't know if this guy really visited hell, or if he made the whole story up... but, his accounting of hell and the details of his experience are backed by scripture. I found the descriptions to be horrifying, I sincerely wouldn't wish Hittler or Sadam or any other man to be tortured for eternity.

I also don't like what God commanded and allowed to happen to other human beings in the past... but again, I am not in any position to judge God. I would rather kiss His ass for eternity in comfort if required, rather than be tormented in hell. Hell will not be a cool (pun intended both regards to esteem and temperature) fun place to hang out.

[Goodman]

I also don't like what God commanded and allowed to happen to other human beings in the past... but again, I am not in any position to judge God.

Of course that is a non-issue given the New Covenant.
The OT is just background. Without the NT and New Covenant there would not be Christianity.
Mark, I know you understand this. I just mention it as a reminder to LAGC.

[insider]

LAGC-In with the new, out with the old, If you ever read the important parts of the Bible, you would know the NEW Testament replaced the OLD Testament. We love our neighbor, not stone his wife and pillage his goods anymore. Grow up you liberal idiot! Only the Muslims live by the Old Testament.

[LAGC]

LAGC, I'd wage you'd figure this guy to be a "kook"... but a guy named Bill Wiese wrote a book called "28 Minutes in Hell". (video title says 23, but I think the book was 28).



I don't know if this guy really visited hell, or if he made the whole story up... but, his accounting of hell and the details of his experience are backed by scripture. I found the descriptions to be horrifying, I sincerely wouldn't wish Hittler or Sadam or any other man to be tortured for eternity.

OH FFS! This poor guy had a nightmare, and its no coincidence that it happened to coincide with scripture, because that's what he happened to believe in! I imagine the demons who were conversing were speaking in the King's English too, eh?



I used to have the occasional nightmares about demons and angels and stuff while I was a Christian. Then once I quit believing, they stopped. No coincidence. Just like how little kids relay dreams they had of Santa Claus, but once they grow older and find out he's not real, those Santa dreams tend to stop.

Quit frankly, that's a good reason to NOT be religious. Religious people tend to be haunted by more explicit nightmares, and religious people who happen to be mentally ill (like schizophrenics) tend to have some of the worst psychotic breaks!

[LAGC]

Only the Muslims live by the Old Testament.

And Orthodox Jews.

And those fine folks at Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas.

I'm sure there are a few others...

[Mark Ducati]

I used to have the occasional nightmares about demons and angels and stuff while I was a Christian

LAGC, respectfully... "was"? Sir, if you are using the term "was", then some might believe you never were a true Christian in the first place. I forget the the exact quote from scripture, but it is stated (to paraphrase), that once you are "saved" or "born again" and in the fold of God, Satan can never pull you out of God's hand. Once saved, always saved.

Sure Christians sin and continue to sin even after they are saved... but the difference is in the remorse and repentance after the sin. And more importantly, because of their worship of Jesus as Lord and belief that in Him as God's Son and the sacrifice of His own life on the cross, He singularly paid the debt for our sins. Unsaved sinners do not have the same sense of remorse and repentance for the right reason. That is, when I sin, I truly regret not only my action, but also that it offended and hurt God and even though I wasn't there at his crucifixion, it was MY personal sin that put the nails in his hands (so to speak), and this bothers me greatly that another man (not just a man) suffered beyond belief for what I did.

So, if you were truly a Christian once before, you still would be... I think you might never truly were to begin with.

[slamfire51]

LAGC, respectfully... "was"? Sir, if you are using the term "was", then you never were a true Christian in the first place. I forget the the exact quote from scripture, but it is stated (to paraphrase), that once you are "saved" or "born again" and in the fold of God, Satan can never pull you out of God's hand. Once saved, always saved.

Sure Christians sin and continue to sin... but the difference is in the remorse and repentance after the sin. Unsaved sinners do not have the same sense of remorse and repentance for the right reason. That is, when I sin, I truly regret not only my action, but also that it offended and hurt God.

So, if you were truly a Christian once before, you still would be... I don't think you ever truly were to begin with.

I tend to agree with you about LAGC. His demon nightmares probably started while in the 'pen' with the demons being 'BUBBA, and the angels being the 'screws' saving his ass.

I was 'saved' in the late 60's and have never had any thought of turning away from my faith. True believers know their sins will be forgiven and they will have a place with God in the hereafter.
Those who turn away have never been saved, IMO.

[mriddick]

Oddly 40 years ago I was given a Koran in school, I also had a Buddhist teacher who taught me more about that religion then I probably knew of Christianity at the time. I assume considering the historical significance these books represent it's not that unheard of? Besides we teach socialism in school and we know what that leads to in terms of death and destruction...

[FunkyPertwee]

How dare someone give information to children which could be used to make informed decisions about their own lives.

[LAGC]

LAGC, respectfully... "was"? Sir, if you are using the term "was", then some might believe you never were a true Christian in the first place. I forget the the exact quote from scripture, but it is stated (to paraphrase), that once you are "saved" or "born again" and in the fold of God, Satan can never pull you out of God's hand. Once saved, always saved.

I was raised Eastern (Greek) Orthodox. They split from the Catholic church in the year 1054, but are alike in many ways. Just like the Catholics, they become "saved" and "born again" upon being baptized as babies -- no further act of contrition is required. Protestants didn't start that non-sense about "personally accepting Jesus as savior" until after the Council of Trent in 1551:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_ag...onal_positions

The idea of having to "personally accept Jesus as savior" is a relatively new idea, and not canon for most of Christianity's history.

[Kadmos]

Personally I believe in freedom of and freedom from (at least where government is concerned).

However to simply make a bible accessible to kids who want one I don't have any real problem with.

No, a public school teacher shouldn't go up to a student, hand them a bible and say "here take this"

But if a kid is just taking them off a stack in the office next to other literature I don't see the problem.

If the kid walks in and says "I hear you are giving out free bibles" and the secratary says "They are right over there by the free condoms and the STD pamphlets" I really don't have an issue.

BTW, I fully believe unless a person has read the entire bible (Tanak plus the New Testament) then they really aren't fully educated.

[old Grump]

Hopefully she reads the bible and learns something.

[tank_monkey]

Even to persons who are NOT Christian, Jewish or Muslim (and I know many Buddhists, Hindus, etc.) the Bible is an incredibly important book as it is the foundation of three major religions and in many ways the foundation of Western Civilization. For that along (bereft of all religious connections) the Bible is one of the most important books in the history of the human race, even to those who are of different beliefs. To bar it is like banning the scrolls from the Library of Alexandria or destroying the works of Plato, Socrates, Sun Tzu and others. It is WILLFUL ignorance. The Pagan woman apparently can't stand having competing ideas to her view of the world (sounds like a liberal, actually )

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Hey LAGC, were you outraged when those schools were teaching Islam, having the kids take muslim names and dress like scummy muzzies? I thought not. Christianity is fair game in the liberal world for scorn, disrespect and discrimination while Islam gets a free pass.

[tank_monkey]

[old Grump]

[IMG][/IMG]

Rip van Winkle slept for 20 years, are you ready for that long a stretch.