Sears, Kmart: Beginning of the end?

[Warthogg]

I remember when Sears had the finest major appliance and electronics sales force ever assembled on planet earth. Then management decided those people were making too much money.

Now we will be spectators as Sears proceeds (relatively slowly) along its path to bankruptcy. Sears will be shedding jobs like snakes shedding skins. Banks will be fleeced as Sears goes down and they too will shed jobs. But the worst hit will be the suppliers. Most supplier debt will be unsecured and those companies will be badly, badly hurt and will be forced to shed many jobs. Some will go bankrupt. Whirlpool is the largest single Sears supplier so Whirlpool will also shed many jobs to survive.


Wart

Sears EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, Amortization) has dropped from $3.6 billion to $400 million.*

As a slide in sales continues, Sears Holdings announces the pending closures of more than 100 stores. And a year from now, the outlook might be just as grim.

While many retailers remain on pins and needles about how their holiday receipts will stack up, there's no mystery at Sears Holdings (SHLD -23.84%). The company that operates Sears and Kmart department stores has been losing customers and bleeding red ink forever, and the past few months were no exception.

So Sears wasted no time in announcing a huge cutback on its store count. Between 100 and 120 Sears and Kmart stores will be closed. The company says $140 million to $170 million will be made as inventory is shuffled out at fire-sale prices.

But more disturbing than the store closures is the context. Sears is losing money, and no profits are expected anytime soon. It makes you wonder if this really is just the beginning of the end for the once-iconic department store.

*EBITDA is the number most often used by investment bankers to value companies. Not the only number of course.

[imanaknut]

It is sad to see Sears sinking into oblivion, but when they complain that their appliances aren't selling, they just need to look at their competition to understand why. Then after looking at the competition, fix the problem.

Unfortunately in this country lately, it seems that quitting is the preferred solution. Look at GM closing Pontiac instead of fixing an easy issue on what was their best selling line. And with Saturn never updating their cars and not understanding why sales dropped. I could go on.

As for Sears, the last time I went in to buy an appliance, there was a delivery charge to bring it to my house, a set up charge once there, and a charge to remove the old appliance. So I went to Lowes, next day delivery was free, set up was free, and removal of the old machine...yep, free. And the price of the appliance itself was within dollars of what sears wanted just for the appliance. But after adding delivery and the other charges, guess why I didn't buy the one from Sears.

Again, makes me sad and sick to see companies just give up instead of trying to compete for today's hard earned dollars.

[mriddick]

Was the sears product American made VS lowes being mexican? IMO Both are failing because they both have too much long term debt they can't get out of.

[imanaknut]

Good question, it says Maytag, Newton Iowa, so I figure that is USA.

Also checked the Maytag website and learned that they are owned by the Whirlpool Corp. Didn't know that.

I did know that at one time Maytag made appliances for Sears under the Kenmore name, but lately I will be honest and haven't paid attention to where anything is made.

With so many things with American names made outside the USA, and so many things with foreign names made inside the USA it is getting hard to tell the players without a score card.

Just for the heck of it, I checked a sump pump I just bought from Lowe's. "Assembled in USA using foreign and domestic made parts".

I give up.

[Schuetzenman]

I had a Maytag front loader washer and dryer purchased at Lowe's in 2005. We burried the washer in 2010. I spent $880 on that washer and it didn't last quite 5 years by the calendar. Called a service rep., cost us $150 just to get them to the house. Said it was the Motherboard that controlled everything. $600 bucks for that with the visit prorated into the board cost.

I went on line, looked at Best Buy. Found a Samsung (Korean made) vertical high RPM type front loading washer that was 50% bigger in wash capacity. Price ... $475, delivered free.

Comparison of the Maytag to the Samsung is this; the Matag was a noisy beast, you could hear it two rooms away with the TV on. I theorize it shook itself apart. The Samsung is quiet like a cat purring even in spin cycle.

So far the Samsung whoops ass on the Maytag. We do still have the Maytag dryer, it is still doing a great job of drying. Should it go I will pickup a matching Samsung dryer to go with the washer. From my perspective Maytag is just another GM ... getting by on past glory and deliverying inferior product at present. I wish you luck with your Maytag product, certainly I didn't have any with the Washer. BTW it starting acting squirely 3.5 years after installation. We just limped along with it for nearly 1.5 years until it finally was not operationl.


To get back on topic, Kamart and Sears, I just recently went there with the wife. To sum it up EVERYTHING they carried was 20+% higher than at Wallymart. My comment to the ball n chain was "why do people shop here, everything is way more expensive than Walmart"?

[old Grump]

Dumped my Sears stock when they divested themselves of All State insurance and Dean Witter. Never looked back. From a powerhouse to so low on the market that they were brought up by K'Mart freshly out of bankruptcy themselves. Book keepers took over the company and ruined it just like they did Walmart.

[Warthogg]

I also have a front load Maytag washer and dryer. Just checked the plate and they were made in Germany.


Wart

[imanaknut]

Like everything mechanical, some are trouble free for ever, and some are lemons.

Just ask about any specific firearm and stand back about the stories about they are all junk because mine was, or they are all perfect as mine is.

One reason I hate buying anything these days is that it is becoming more of a crap-shoot as to whether you get a gem or a lemon.

[Altarboy]

Sad, I still have a Stevens 20 guage my Dad bought at K Mart back in 1970. My buddy has a Ted Williams (Winchester) 30 30 from Sears his dad bought in the 60s. And Sears was always a good store for automotive stuff. I'll miss them- btw, I quit shopping at K Mart when they stopped selling guns.

[Skip]

Still using our Sear washer and dryer along with the dishwasher. It came with the home in 1984. We would like to modernize but all three are going strong.

[Zygomatic]

Sears and Kmart should fail. They both suck. My experience in the last 2 weeks....

Sears - Needed a new vacuum so I went to sears. (I had bought a Kenmore there 10 years ago and it worked pretty good). So I get to where the vacuums are and nobody is there to help. I got the machines out myself, plugged them in, tried them out, read the info on my own. I got some dirt out of one of the machines spread it on the carpet and cleaned it up with several machines to see which was best. I decided which one I wanted to buy and put it in a cart. THEN some dipshit sales guy shows up and gives me his card and says, "Please give them this card at checkout so I can get my commission off this sale. We work on 100% commission." Hows that for service? I put the card in my pocket with no intent of presenting it at checkout. But when I got to checkout, they said "Did you work with Jared?" and paged him up there to run the register. He got his commission anyway. Hell of a salesman he is.

Also I went to check out a drill press because I've been wanting one. All craftsman had to offer was a Micky Mouse little POS that looked exactly like the ones at Harbor Freight. I asked the guy what was the difference between these and the ones at harbor freight because they look exactly the same but for the sticker. And the price (150 instead of 70). He said it had a laser. I asked WTF would I need a laser for on a drill press? No real answer. I ended up buying a nice big Delta from a pawn shop for 80 bucks. Maybe he meant the laser drill press did not require drill bits

Kmart. - Went there to look for a nighty for the Mrs. I was stunned by the condition of the store. All the clothing - men's, women's, boy's, girl's, juniors, plus sizes, big men's... all pushed together in one corner of the store with no organization or order to what was what.

Fuck Kmart and Sears. I hope they sink.

[binky59]

The last time I went into Sears was when I bought one of their 1-1/2hp routers at the salvation army store for $10 and wanted a
couple of bits for it. I looked at the router bits..3/16 shank, so I looked at their routers...1/4" collet WTF...so I ask the kid what
the deal is, and he tells me the 3/16" bits are easier to get out when you change them...Damn I never went back..Home Depot
had a deal that if you brought in a broken craftsman tool they would refund the price of the tool if you bought Milwalkee.
Kmart....Target.....what a bunch of crap!

[El Duce]

I used to love going into Sears and check out the tool department. They always had a managers special table. I don't get out to Malls much. But when I do, you can find me in the tool Department at Sears.

As a Kid, I remember looking at guns at Sears.

[weevil]

I remember when Sears was the top of the line in dept. stores.


Yeah they were higher on their prices but it was top quality stuff and they had the best service in the business.


The first thing to go was the service. Used to be you'd go in to any dept. and someone was right there to help you. Then they cut back on their staff and you'd go in and stand there until you finally got tired and went to find somebody or walked out.

Then the quality went. Same cheap junk as the discount stores but at Sears prices.

Then the customers went and soon they'll be joining Monkey Wards as just another memory of where we used to go before WallyWorld.

[Broondog]

i don't get to the mall much either (once a year maybe?) but i do recall having to find my own help at Sears. the lady i did find that was willing to talk to me responded to my question with "if we got 'em they be over there" and motioned to a general region of the store. awesome customer service i must say.

and during the same trip i was perusing the tool department and not one person came to see if i needed any help (which i did BTW). so it seems that i am not the only one having disappointing experiences at Sears as of late.

BTW, i didn't spend a dime in Sears that day. looks like it may be time to gather up the few Craftsman hand tools i have that need replaced and get it done while the getting is good.

they DO still do THAT, don't they?

[stampederunner]

I have worked for Sears for almost 2 years now as a Loss Prevention Manager. I must admit sears a total and complete cluster fuck. I have worked in retail loss prevention for the past 8 years and worked at Kohls and Target before Sears. Sears came looking for me and offered me pretty good money to come to the dark side, which is very rare. Our biggest problem is customer service and outsourcing. We outsource all delivery, repair, installation and we even outsource customer service! If you buy the outrageous protection agreement and have a problem you have to deal with a company called One Source who's goal is to shut you up for as little money possible. I can not tell you how many times I have seen items come in for repair that take over a month and they come back in not even touched. Then Sears makes you deal with the company that "repaired" your item.

Our prices are higher than all of our competitors, we have very little stock on hand and we charge for delivery. You go to Lowes and pick out a new range and it will be delivered next day free of charge and at a great price. Order the same range from Sears and we will tell you it will be in in 2 weeks, 4 weeks later we will tell you we can no longer get the same one in and convince you to take another item. Your new range will eventually be delivered in a rusted out multicolored astro van by a convict we subcontracted. The item will come in dented and the wrong color. Of course none of this will be sears fault and you will be directed to a 1-800 number out of India to try to resolve your problems.

I need another beer.........

[slamfire51]

I remember when Sears was the top of the line in dept. stores.


Yeah they were higher on their prices but it was top quality stuff and they had the best service in the business.


The first thing to go was the service. Used to be you'd go in to any dept. and someone was right there to help you. Then they cut back on their staff and you'd go in and stand there until you finally got tired and went to find somebody or walked out.

Then the quality went. Same cheap junk as the discount stores but at Sears prices.

Then the customers went and soon they'll be joining Monkey Wards as just another memory of where we used to go before WallyWorld.

WallyWorld did the same soon after Sam died. I remember before his death, you could go to any department and there was always several associates to help you without searching for them. In 1992, they skeletonized the depts with a manager and one associate.
Now days, you're more or less on your own.

[old Grump]

Last time I bought tools and sporting equipment from Sears I ended up paying more for the products with my employee discount and sale price than I would have for the same tools and sporting gear from Montgomery Wards. Wards went out of business and I took my business to mail order companies like McMaster Carr or Northern Tool Company. Sears just went ridiculous, I think they got the to big to fail syndrome and couldn't believe their customers would walk away from them.

[Dan Morris]

I had to kill a couple of hours in SW Plaza mall on monday.While walking through Sears, that was the most disinterested bunch of people I had ever seen....plut the merchandise was scrappy and no real dept order.
Dan

[nfa1934]

The Sears in the mall near my house has looked like it is going out of business for the last three years. Seriously, it looks like they are packing up and the last truck is coming any day to pick up the remaining inventory. For three years. It's in a dying mall (Landmark in Alexandria VA), the sort of place that just has the remnants of a food court, discount furniture, ethnic hair salons, and urban clothing stores that also sell rims.

The last thing I purchased there was an exercise bench. They had a floor model, but no boxed ones on display. I asked several people walking around if they had a boxed one in the back. The only answer was that I needed to ask the sporting goods guy. No one pointed out the sporting goods guy or directed him to me. I finally went to the nearest register. He seemed surprised (and irritated) that I wanted him to look up the inventory to see if they had a boxed bench in the back. After finally going to the Herculean effort of typing in a stock number and hitting enter, he told me they had two of them in the back. Then he tried to wander away. I stopped him and told him I wanted to buy one. He told me I could order it online and have it shipped to my house. Why in the hell would I leave a brick and mortar store that has an item in stock in order to go home and order it online from the same company at the same price plus shipping and then wait a week for it? I told him I wanted to buy one of the two they had in stock. He gave me an exasperated look, but finally rang up my order. I went to the pickup area and someone brought it out around fifteen minutes later. Horrible service.

I've had sales people in stores direct me to online sales if there was a special deal or an online only model that might interest me (and I appreciate it), but I had never had someone do that out of laziness.