What idiot decided to make idler pulleys plastic?

[1 Patriot-of-many]

I've had two timing belt idlers explode on me now in less than 75K miles.

WTF make the damn things metal. Luckily my engine is a noninterference engine according to Gates. 1995 Mystique 2.0

[N/A]

I've had two timing belt idlers explode on me now in less than 75K miles.

WTF make the damn things metal. Luckily my engine is a noninterference engine according to Gates. 1995 Mystique 2.0

You know it's the engineers at the auto makers who decided that.

[JAMC]

Decision probably swayed by two factors;
plastic = cheaper than metal
plastic = lighter than metal

But yes, when fundamental components like that only last 75k, you have to wonder whether the maintenance costs are a huge detracting factor.

I'm also narked that cams are driven by belts instead of chains.

[rci2950]

you know of course there is planned obsolesence built into everything these days. Check out the Documentary "The Lightbulb Conspiracy" It is on Youtube in full version because it is not protected content.

[coppertales]

bean counters.......................................chr is3

[sevlex]

bean counters.......................................chr is3

Exactly!

[greeenie]

u know, if its the dohc 2.0 liter, then they are known for this issue. Im a mechanic at a ford dealership and see it all too often, especially on the focus and escort zx2. really nothing u can do about it other than be dilligent about drivetrain noises

[Infidelski]

When an automotive company accountant (the guy with the check book) says to the company design engineers if y'all want your paychecks to keep coming then you'll help us sell more parts its called "engineered obsolescence" and it works very well for every product we buy, not just car companies and could be alot worse than it is.

[5.56NATO]

I am guessing the same guy who made intake manifolds out of plastic as well. Egr gas temperatures do not mix well with plastic, even if ported through a metal sleeve

[Kadmos]

Actually it's not so stupid, the plastic ones run smoother as the bearing is molded in not pressed in. Also the plastic is much less likely to tear up a belt and thus leave you stranded, possibly with an interference engine that ends up being a serious costly repair.

By the way you are talking about replacing the same part on a 17 year old car twice in that time at a total cost of what maybe $30 in parts, giving you an average service life of 8 1/2 years...perhaps you are expecting a bit much...

[was_peacemaker]

When an automotive company accountant (the guy with the check book) says to the company design engineers if y'all want your paychecks to keep coming then you'll help us sell more parts its called "engineered obsolescence" and it works very well for every product we buy, not just car companies and could be alot worse than it is.

No kidding! Seen how some of these new lawn mowers are built?

[1 Patriot-of-many]

u know, if its the dohc 2.0 liter, then they are known for this issue. Im a mechanic at a ford dealership and see it all too often, especially on the focus and escort zx2. really nothing u can do about it other than be dilligent about drivetrain noises

Nothing more than the normal knock at 187000 miles, was cruising at 70mph and suddenly no power..... It is a DOHC 2.0 I've done two of these now in 75K. Just a PITA, at least it's not valves into pistons engine though, and I found I have a loose/bad bearing on the right front when working on this, so I guess it's kind of a blessing.. Loss of power vs loss of front wheel at 70mph.....

[Infidelski]

No kidding! Seen how some of these new lawn mowers are built?

Thats exactly where it gets worse, imagine if cars were like mowers. oh its broke, fixing is almost what it costs to replace then okay lets buy a new one. I see it all the time with small engine driven equipment: mowers, portable generators and stuff. People almost always say we'll if its going to cost $150 to fix I'll just buy another for $450. IMHO IDIOTS... 1st thing people should do is dont buy junk and if they can't tell junk from junk then they shouldnt buy the junk to begin with.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Actually it's not so stupid, the plastic ones run smoother as the bearing is molded in not pressed in. Also the plastic is much less likely to tear up a belt and thus leave you stranded, possibly with an interference engine that ends up being a serious costly repair.

By the way you are talking about replacing the same part on a 17 year old car twice in that time at a total cost of what maybe $30 in parts, giving you an average service life of 8 1/2 years...perhaps you are expecting a bit much...

Guess I didn't specify, I bought the car with 101,000 miles on it. I've had two of these explode in the 86,000 miles I've had it, or about 4-5 years I've owned it. Also replaced numerous things like ball joints, had a shop replace two headgaskets, I replaced a further third one since I don't think they torqued them right the first two times. The manual says after the third stage of torquing to go another 1/4 or half turn, when I asked them about it on the third one I was doing, they said it sounded like overtorqing which gave me a clue why two failed so soon that they did.....

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Decision probably swayed by two factors;
plastic = cheaper than metal
plastic = lighter than metal

But yes, when fundamental components like that only last 75k, you have to wonder whether the maintenance costs are a huge detracting factor.

I'm also narked that cams are driven by belts instead of chains.

That would be 30K or so in my case..... I put it all in perspective now, 30K for new car vs a little anguish and even if I had to replace the engine and tranny, what maybe 2K? I'm long past the I need a new vehicle so I can look good phase. everyone has a need for a new car or two in their lifetime I think. We've had ours. 88 Ford Ranger supercrew, 1997? Dodge Ram 1500, 2001 Ford supercrew(still have that), 2000 Dodge ram 2500(still have it). That would be the last brand new ones till we retire. Wife wants another Supercrew when we do.

[Kadmos]

Guess I didn't specify, I bought the car with 101,000 miles on it. I've had two of these explode in the 86,000 miles I've had it, or about 4-5 years I've owned it. Also replaced numerous things like ball joints, had a shop replace two headgaskets, I replaced a further third one since I don't think they torqued them right the first two times. The manual says after the third stage of torquing to go another 1/4 or half turn, when I asked them about it on the third one I was doing, they said it sounded like overtorqing which gave me a clue why two failed so soon that they did.....

Odds they actually even used a torque wrench at all are pretty slim.

I'm kinda wondering if something else isn't wrong maybe causing the issue, maybe the belt is dragging on one of the other pulleys and heating up? Maybe the tensioner has an issue?

I had to reread your post that you were saying two crapped out in the last 75K before it sunk in.

When you say they "exploded" what exactly do you mean by that? Like actually came apart? Frozen bearings? Or wear on one side? Maybe messing up the belt?

With you saying head-gaskets and "other work" did you by chance replace the water pump? Often they don't come with the right pulley, or come with pulleys that may sit higher or lower than the original. I can't tell you how many times when I worked at a parts store in high school that I would pull the "right" pump off the shelf and see the pulley sat much differently than the one the customer brought in, or had them come back telling me their belt was a five groove and this pulley on the new pump isn't.

You may want to check and make sure the belt is really right, the pulleys are correct and that everything actually lines up like its supposed to. I'm thinking it's just a bit off and wearing that idler down on one side till it craps out.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Odds they actually even used a torque wrench at all are pretty slim.

I'm kinda wondering if something else isn't wrong maybe causing the issue, maybe the belt is dragging on one of the other pulleys and heating up? Maybe the tensioner has an issue?

I had to reread your post that you were saying two crapped out in the last 75K before it sunk in.

When you say they "exploded" what exactly do you mean by that? Like actually came apart? Frozen bearings? Or wear on one side? Maybe messing up the belt?

With you saying head-gaskets and "other work" did you by chance replace the water pump? Often they don't come with the right pulley, or come with pulleys that may sit higher or lower than the original. I can't tell you how many times when I worked at a parts store in high school that I would pull the "right" pump off the shelf and see the pulley sat much differently than the one the customer brought in, or had them come back telling me their belt was a five groove and this pulley on the new pump isn't.

You may want to check and make sure the belt is really right, the pulleys are correct and that everything actually lines up like its supposed to. I'm thinking it's just a bit off and wearing that idler down on one side till it craps out.

Think you're missing the picture. The timing belt rides behind the cover, the water pump pulley, alt ect are in front of the cover. On this engine, you only have the two camshaft pulleys , the idler pulley(which two have exploded into three pieces) and the crankshaft pulley, nothing to get out of wack. I did replace the water pump myself on the first one when I changed the belt and idler pulley. Belt looks fine, it should after 30-40K, the idler pulley just broke into three pieces causing the belt to not drive the cams.

[TheMrMitch]

Read the sci fi book "The Subliminal Man".

[greeenie]

Odds they actually even used a torque wrench at all are pretty slim.

I'm kinda wondering if something else isn't wrong maybe causing the issue, maybe the belt is dragging on one of the other pulleys and heating up? Maybe the tensioner has an issue?

I had to reread your post that you were saying two crapped out in the last 75K before it sunk in.

When you say they "exploded" what exactly do you mean by that? Like actually came apart? Frozen bearings? Or wear on one side? Maybe messing up the belt?

With you saying head-gaskets and "other work" did you by chance replace the water pump? Often they don't come with the right pulley, or come with pulleys that may sit higher or lower than the original. I can't tell you how many times when I worked at a parts store in high school that I would pull the "right" pump off the shelf and see the pulley sat much differently than the one the customer brought in, or had them come back telling me their belt was a five groove and this pulley on the new pump isn't.

You may want to check and make sure the belt is really right, the pulleys are correct and that everything actually lines up like its supposed to. I'm thinking it's just a bit off and wearing that idler down on one side till it craps out.

torque wrenches are only for important things, like headstuds and whatnot.... but this is a COMMON problem amongst 2.0 liters. see about 1 a month with this exact problem. nobody makes a metal idler pulley, and the plastic one doesnt hold heat well, seems when the bearing goes, so does the pulley

[Kadmos]

Think you're missing the picture. The timing belt rides behind the cover, the water pump pulley, alt ect are in front of the cover. On this engine, you only have the two camshaft pulleys , the idler pulley(which two have exploded into three pieces) and the crankshaft pulley, nothing to get out of wack. I did replace the water pump myself on the first one when I changed the belt and idler pulley. Belt looks fine, it should after 30-40K, the idler pulley just broke into three pieces causing the belt to not drive the cams.

Ah...did not know that.


greenie, the torque wrench being talked about was for the headgasket...I wouldn't bother with one on an idler pulley either