Input need for AK hog gun

**Elfhunter** · 02-21-2012, 06:51 PM

Looking for input on a AK build I'm contemplating.

Purpose of this gun is to shoot hogs and was inspired by Red Jacket's AR 450 SOCOM hog gun.

Going to use a Saiga 410 for parts for the build. Specs are:

Milled AK receiver threaded for a 20 inch 45 cal heavy barrel chambered for a .458 wildcat based on the 7.62x54r cartridge. I think the milled receiver with a screwed in barrel will give the rifle a more rigid platform, sorta like a bolt action rifle. I was going to see if Tony Rumore of Tromix would set up the barrel in the same way he did for his AK 444 Marlin conversion. Finish the barrel with some kind of flash suppressor.

This .458X54r rimmed wildcat case has straight sides like a 444 Marlin with just about the same case capacity. The difference in the size of the rim on the 7.62x54r and that of the 410 are so small there is very little modification to the head of the bolt and none to the extractor.

Going to fabricate or have fabricated a gas block to fit on the fatter barrel. Would there be a problem using a split gas block like the ones they use on AR's? Split gas block would make it easier to install on the barrel.

Going to try and attach the rear sight block, in this case the gas tube support, onto the receiver to get if off the barrel. That might help accuracy just a little bit.

Sights will be a combination of optics like the AK 450 SOCOM. And I would like to finish it off with a bullpup stock to keep it short and keep the weight close to the body for a quicker response. Shorter rifle in brush would be a good asset too.

Any input, criticism or suggestions would be most appreciated. If you see a problems with the proposed build please let me know before I start putting money in to this rifle.

Thanks in advance for your help.

**El Laton Caliente** · 02-21-2012, 07:03 PM

Welcome to the Board!

No advise, but what a build. Sounds like it would be a great rifle. You are dealing with a much higher gas pressure so the bleed hole size may require tinkering; start small & work up.

**Goodman** · 02-21-2012, 08:06 PM

Sounds like a great build. My only thought is that if Rumore's lead times for his stock projects are any indication you may find yourself waiting a very long time before you go hunting.

**Elfhunter** · 02-21-2012, 08:33 PM

Thanks for the input El Laton.

I was thinking of installing an adjustable gas block. That would make it easier to shoot the whole spectrum of bullet weights.

I believe that the pressure would be a lower than the 308 Win rounds. 308 Win is rated at max of 62,000 psi and there are all kinds of 308 conversion out there. I forget where I read it but there is a letter from a Russian engineer that states the the AK can handle hot 308 Win loads.

And Goodman ur right about the lead time for Tony. Just checked and he is booked until June. Have to go a different direction with the barrel work.

**El Laton Caliente** · 02-21-2012, 09:03 PM

I thought about adjustable and it sounded like a lot of machine work. Wonder if a M76 or PSL gas block would work...

Come to think about it a M76 kit and receiver might make a good starting place...

**Gunreference1** · 02-21-2012, 09:40 PM

Elfhunter, don't you think you could shorten up a .45-70 case and achieve the same goal with a lot less work? Just my $0.02.

Steve

**Elfhunter** · 02-22-2012, 01:40 AM

You guys are making me look at this build real hard.

I was looking at a 7.62x54r Romanian PSL kit as a starting point for the build. I did a little research and found that the PSL does real good with military ammo but won't handle the stress of hotter reloads. Everything I read pointed to using the strongest receiver I could come up with so I figured that a new US made milled case would be the best I could do.

I chose the Saiga 410 as a the starting point because the price is good and the bolt is about the right size for the rim of the 7.62x54r case. Plus I would have all new parts needed to finish the build. I will be changing the trigger for a better quality trigger. The trigger pull would be terrible after installing the bullpup kit with the extended trigger rod.

As for the case, I really wanted to use the 308 case but the base of the 308 case is to small to neck it up to a .458 bullet. I looked at the 45-70 case along with a bunch of other cases. The problem I had with the 45-70, is the rim diameter of the 45-70 is larger than the rim on the 7.62x54r case and I wanted to minimize the amount of material removed from the head of the bolt. The rim on a .410 is .524 inches diameter, the rim on the 7.62x54r is .567 inches diameter and the 45-70 has a rim diameter of .608 inches diameter. The difference in the amount of material removed from the bolt may not amount to a hill of beans but since I want to use a bullpup stock, that chamber is going to be real close to my head.

The other reasons for using the 7.62x54r is that cases are readily available and it has a case capacity of about 64gr which makes it a bit larger than the 308 win with 56 gr case capacity with only .1 inch longer case. Plus it basically came down to the fact that I was going to have to either headspace off the rim of a rimmed case or off the mouth of the regular case.

In addition, going with the 7.62x54r case gave me a chance to dream about and designing a new wildcat round, the 458x54r.

The build would be real simple if I didn't want to make it better than it probably should be.

Use the Saiga 410 receiver with the bolt turned to accept the rim of the 7.62x54r case. Rebarrel with a Saiga 410 contoured barrel chamber in the 486x54r round. The Saiga 410 mags will work with the new round and your done. Expand the neck of the 7.62x54r cases and start fire forming the brass.

I think I just talked myself into building this revised easier build and then if it doesn't perform the way I like, I will build the more elaborate rifle.

Thanks for ur input.