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Thread: Another new planet discovered and explored via Hubble

  1. #21
    Senior Member gpwasr10's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    Dangerous, and expensive. But ok, it's exploring and I am for that. But can we at least come up with clear goals? And can they not be stupid?

    Do we need to put 100 rovers on mars to tell us we really can't survive there and it's way too expensive to mine, if there is anything to mine there anyway?
    No, we need to put 100 Rovers on Mars so we can learn how to do it with better then a 50% success rate (And FASTER as you mentioned we lack a high speed space vehicle), and all the while (As a side bonus) we we learn plenty about the Red Planet wich is actually fairly facinating. Not to mention it gives people who might be going to school for something like ROCKET SCIENCE or any of the Aerospace fields something to DO when they graduate.



    Did we need to go into low earth orbit on a shuttle 135 times at a cost of 1.5 billion dollars per flight?
    And we don't. The platform got old, but we had to make sure all these fucking illegals had free healthcare and thus lack a replacement.


    But here's a thought, how about we work on alternative fuel sources, ways to turn actual desert into farmland and make it cheap enough to pay...maybe we could lower the cost of basic food so people could buy their own.

    Yeah, I don't see the problem with people getting food here.

    There is more than one kind of scientific exploring, we could send out the occasional craft on a clear mission to a new place and spend a lot of the money we basically wasted trying to solve some of the big problems here.
    But they are not even discussing a mission. Unless you count making a speacial place for beaner vegitable pickers to live "a better life" a "mission".
    Last edited by gpwasr10; 02-22-2012 at 06:09 PM.
    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
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    "Accept the challenges, so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory."
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Kadmos's Avatar

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    I love how you guys turn this into a "Kadmos would rather give illegals free health care than explore space"

    It's ridiculous.

    I've been a fan of the space program and astronomy since I was young, and never lost that urge to have us explore.

    But NASA fucked up and badly.

    Too many missions doing the same thing over and over with little to show for it, very little public support, and wasted opportunities to the point where even hardcore space buffs think they are stuck in a useless rut wasting money.

    The Russian first put an object on Mars is the early 70's, we did it a couple years later. Then after a 20 plus year gap we sent a rover, then another pair. Had a few losses, and have another rover on the way right now. Japan and the EU sent a rover.

    If we aren't going farther, or faster, then we are going to the same place over and over.

    It's truly amazing when we even crash a rover into a new planet, we usually get a huge amount of data. But if you crash into the same planet over and over it gets dull, it seems like a waste.

    We have a Mars rover that is still transmitting data well past it's planned design, and that's awesome...so why are we sending another instead of sending one to somewhere else?

    You have to go big when you go to space because it is expensive as hell

    You want people to go for it, to like it...great send one rocket to drop landers on 5 or six planets or moons.

    Make it the grand tour, a three or four year mission, dropping them all over the solar system, drop some telescopes off into deeper space with them.

    That's what we should have had the big shuttles doing, automate them and send them out.

    You have to go big or people won't go for it. We we went to the moon the whole world knew and cared...now we have another rover going to Mars and barely anyone knows or cares

  3. #23
    Senior Member gpwasr10's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    I love how you guys turn this into a "Kadmos would rather give illegals free health care than explore space"

    It's ridiculous.
    No need to take it personally, it wasn't directed at you personally. It is a sad fact of life that our elected officials (Mostly on the left) want as many beaners here as they can get so they can have PLENTY of votes. As we all know the "Free Lunch Bunch" are squarely in the corner of the D Party and since you identify yourself as a Democrat, it's going to come up. But I realize it is not your fault personally.

    You have to admit though, we make PLENTY of food.



    The Russian first put an object on Mars is the early 70's, we did it a couple years later. Then after a 20 plus year gap we sent a rover, then another pair. Had a few losses, and have another rover on the way right now. Japan and the EU sent a rover.

    If we aren't going farther, or faster, then we are going to the same place over and over.

    It's truly amazing when we even crash a rover into a new planet, we usually get a huge amount of data. But if you crash into the same planet over and over it gets dull, it seems like a waste.
    It has to do with NASA having a dinky budget, so they have to make due. It's like cars, speed costs money, how fast of a car do you want?
    We have a Mars rover that is still transmitting data well past it's planned design, and that's awesome...so why are we sending another instead of sending one to somewhere else?

    You have to go big when you go to space because it is expensive as hell

    You want people to go for it, to like it...great send one rocket to drop landers on 5 or six planets or moons.

    Make it the grand tour, a three or four year mission, dropping them all over the solar system, drop some telescopes off into deeper space with them.

    That's what we should have had the big shuttles doing, automate them and send them out.

    You have to go big or people won't go for it. We we went to the moon the whole world knew and cared...now we have another rover going to Mars and barely anyone knows or cares
    Then cut free health care for beaners and foreign well-fare (Military Aid as well) programs and put it towards NASA and see what they do with that kind of money. It would be AMAZING I guarantee it.
    Last edited by gpwasr10; 02-22-2012 at 11:00 PM.
    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
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    "Accept the challenges, so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory."
    -George S. Patton

  4. #24
    Senior Member Kadmos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpwasr10 View Post
    No need to take it personally, it wasn't directed at you personally. It is a sad fact of life that our elected officials (Mostly on the left) want as many beaners here as they can get so they can have PLENTY of votes. As we all know the "Free Lunch Bunch" are squarely in the corner of the D Party and since you identify yourself as a Democrat, it's going to come up. But I realize it is not your fault personally.
    Yet somehow the illegals seem to end up in mostly red states working for large farming interests....hmmm

    BTW, I do not identify with either party, there are things I like about both and things that disgust me about both. I will vote either, or neither, as is my right.

    You have to admit though, we make PLENTY of food.
    There is a whole planet to feed, not saying it's our responsibility, but it's a worthy goal to figure out how to make that more efficient.






    It has to do with NASA having a dinky budget, so they have to make due. It's like cars, speed costs money, how fast of a car do you want?
    NASA has an extremely bloated budget, that it uses unwisely.

    Then cut free health care for beaners and foreign well-fare (Military Aid as well) programs and put it towards NASA and see what they do with that kind of money. It would be AMAZING I guarantee it.
    Why give them more when they waste the hell out of it now?

    Why should I be amazed that another lander is going to Mars? A feat we did back in the 70's.

    I remember the lander in I think it was 1996 on the local news, the guy on the news said "Mankind has now made it's first mark on the surface of Mars"....then he says "I'm being told we actually first landed there in the 70's...oh, I'm told after the Russians did it"

    You could see the look on his face of "is this even newsworthy?"

    That is sad as hell

    Yes space is amazing, yes NASA has done some amazing stuff, but sorry they have also fucked the dog by somehow making this amazing thing boring as hell...unless something goes horribly wrong.

    So no, I don't have a giant urge to give them more money to do the same useless crap over and over again with very little in the way of a plan or goals.

  5. #25
    Guns Network Lifetime Membership 01/2011 old Grump's Avatar

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    How fast is gravity, what is it, how do we make it work for us. Gotta get outside the box if we are going to see those extra-solar planets. I'd like to get there and see one or a dozen of them without going bankrupt and without being squished from accelerating to near gravity speed.


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  6. #26
    was_peacemaker
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    Quote Originally Posted by old Grump View Post
    How fast is gravity, what is it, how do we make it work for us. Gotta get outside the box if we are going to see those extra-solar planets. I'd like to get there and see one or a dozen of them without going bankrupt and without being squished from accelerating to near gravity speed.

    I believe gravity is 9.8 meters/second. Working off memory here...been awhile since I was in physics class.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Kadmos's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by was_peacemaker View Post
    I believe gravity is 9.8 meters/second. Working off memory here...been awhile since I was in physics class.
    9.8 meters per second squared...and that's only really an acceleration of free fall on Earth without any consideration for air drag.

    The "speed of gravity" usually refers to the speed of a gravitation wave, which in a vacuum is theoretically the speed of light... 186,000 miles a second (700 million miles an hour).


    "Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space."— Douglas Adams

  8. #28
    Senior Member gpwasr10's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadmos View Post
    Yet somehow the illegals seem to end up in mostly red states working for large farming interests....hmmm

    BTW, I do not identify with either party, there are things I like about both and things that disgust me about both. I will vote either, or neither, as is my right.



    There is a whole planet to feed, not saying it's our responsibility, but it's a worthy goal to figure out how to make that more efficient.








    NASA has an extremely bloated budget, that it uses unwisely.



    Why give them more when they waste the hell out of it now?

    Why should I be amazed that another lander is going to Mars? A feat we did back in the 70's.

    I remember the lander in I think it was 1996 on the local news, the guy on the news said "Mankind has now made it's first mark on the surface of Mars"....then he says "I'm being told we actually first landed there in the 70's...oh, I'm told after the Russians did it"

    You could see the look on his face of "is this even newsworthy?"

    That is sad as hell

    Yes space is amazing, yes NASA has done some amazing stuff, but sorry they have also fucked the dog by somehow making this amazing thing boring as hell...unless something goes horribly wrong.

    So no, I don't have a giant urge to give them more money to do the same useless crap over and over again with very little in the way of a plan or goals.

    Less then 1% of the budget.... They are able to do all of the stuff they do with 1%. Wonder what they could do with a little of the "Global War on Terror" Budget? Or that HuGE Unemployment Budget. Less then 1% dude (18.5B out of 3.5T= about .5 of 1%), your argument thet they have a bloated budget is invalid.

    I submit that Space Exploration has got to be AT LEAST as important as... ohhh lets say.... the EPA that has 3 times the budget.


    As far as feeding the world? Fuck the world. They are far to dependant on American handouts as it is. It's a big part of the reason the world is int he shape it is in now, we have fostered a reality where if there is a problem people just wait for the US to show up and save the day, then once it's done they sit around and tell us that we should have done it better. They have nothing in savings, no infrastructure for emergencies, no Military Protjection abilities no nothing.
    "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
    -Nietzsche

    "Accept the challenges, so that you may feel the exhilaration of victory."
    -George S. Patton

  9. #29
    Guns Network Lifetime Membership 01/2011 old Grump's Avatar

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    Not talking about free fall, the effect of gravity is instantaneous and its effect is felt way out of proportion to any energy based phenomenon. It' is powerful enough to bend light rays just from it's effect alone without any need for a physical lens. It;s the first problem that comes up when we talk about escape velocity and makes orbiting possible providing we keep enough speed on the object we want to place in orbit. It's still in the magic category filed under the 'We don't have a clue as to what makes gravity and if we did could we harness it', file.

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  10. #30
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    Yes, but it takes a monstrous amount of gravity to bend light rays...black holes and whole galaxies and the like.

    Gravity is not instantaneous, no more than light is. Light is always radiating out from the sun; so is gravity. In fact, we can see light that originated 300 million light years away, but we do not perceive that gavity from 300 million light years away.

  11. #31
    Guns Network Lifetime Membership 01/2011 old Grump's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    Yes, but it takes a monstrous amount of gravity to bend light rays...black holes and whole galaxies and the like.

    Gravity is not instantaneous, no more than light is. Light is always radiating out from the sun; so is gravity. In fact, we can see light that originated 300 million light years away, but we do not perceive that gavity from 300 million light years away.
    . Law of universal gravitation says that the force (F) of gravitational attraction between two objects with Mass1 and Mass2 at distance D is:F = G(mass1*mass2)/D squared. Sir Issac Newton In other words the effect of gravitational force varies inversely as the square of the distance. The amount of gravity that something possesses is proportional to its mass and distance between it and another object.

    70.8 (km/sec) expansion rate of the solar system and that is only last summers best guess based on careful observation. Without gravity there would be no stars, no planets, no orbits of those planets around stars, no solar systems, no galaxies. Even with the mysterious black mass no body can define or find. Now imagine the universe without gravity. What would hold us together?
    Less than 5 percent of the universe is composed of atoms—the visible mass that makes life on Earth possible. Another 22 percent of space is thought to be dark matter, an undetectable form of mass thought to affect the orbits and evolutions of galaxies. “Through experiments and observation, we know that there’s a lot of dark matter out there in the universe,” Trodden says. “The big question for people like me [theorists] is, ‘What is this stuff?’”

    http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/curren...erse-expanding

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