So I was just informed that owning guns is the non-Christian thing to do!

[Broondog]

the owners of http://www.classicfirearms.co/ are bible thumpers. nearly the first thing you see on the website is a bible verse.

[insider]

the owners of http://www.classicfirearms.co/ are bible thumpers. nearly the first thing you see on the website is a bible verse.

God bless them! Remember: Sell your cloak and buy a sword!
People who say its wrong or evil to own a weapon are idiots!
The Bible clearly states its OK to defend yourself, self defense is the Christian way.
Remember: Alvin York was a conscientious objector.

[was_peacemaker]

[Exod 22:2] If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
[Matthew 10:34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth; I came not to send peace, but a sword. -- Jesus
[Genesis 14:14] And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

[Gen 27:38] And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.
[Gen 27:39] And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;

[Gen 27:40] And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

[Gen 27:41] And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.


[Lev 26:6] And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
[Lev 26:7] And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.

[Lev 26:8] And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.


[Lev 26:33] And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
[Lev 26:36] And upon them that are left alive of you I will send a faintness into their hearts in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a shaken leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as fleeing from a sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth.

[Lev 26:37] And they shall fall one upon another, as it were before a sword, when none pursueth: and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies.


[Ezek 9:1.29] He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
[Ezek 9:2] And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand;


[Job 19:29] Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment.
[Job 20:24.7] He shall flee from the iron weapon, and the bow of steel shall strike him through.


[Luke 11:21] When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
[Luke 11:22] But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.


[Mat 10:34] Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
[Luke 22:36] Then said He unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

[Luke 22:38] And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

[Luke 22:49] When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?

[Mat 26:51] And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

[John 18:10] Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

[John 18:11] Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

[Mat 26:52] Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.


[Rom 13:1] Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
[Rom 13:2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power [of governments], resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

[Rom 13:3] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

[Rom 13:4] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


[Rev 13:10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

[Rev 12:17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



That "Christian"?

Thanks I am going to research these some more. Might even find some others.

[was_peacemaker]

God bless them! Remember: Sell your cloak and buy a sword!
People who say its wrong or evil to own a weapon are idiots!
The Bible clearly states its OK to defend yourself, self defense is the Christian way.
Remember: Alvin York was a conscientious objector.

Really Alvin York the WW1 hero was a conscientious objector?

[gpwasr10]

Thanks I am going to research these some more. Might even find some others.

I'm personally agnostic, but I have had this argument with "weak minded Christians" before. I may not share the faith, but I have zero respect for those who call themselves Christian... but completely ignore the writings.

[was_peacemaker]

I'm personally agnostic, but I have had this argument with "weak minded Christians" before. I may not share the faith, but I have zero respect for those who call themselves Christian... but completely ignore the writings.

Yeah, unfortunately run into that. Then when you try to show them something in the Bible they get really mad.

[gpwasr10]

Yeah, unfortunately run into that. Then when you try to show them something in the Bible they get really mad.

My fellow "Science People" get the same way when you show them that a theory they hold dear.... is bullshit. IN many ways Science is it's own religion and can, on occasion, be quite inflexible.


I'm looking at you Global Warmers....

[insider]

Really Alvin York the WW1 hero was a conscientious objector?

Yup, but he still did the right thing.

[mriddick]

I think you have to be careful linking Christianity and weapons. Simply put weapons are not in the plan of salvation. One reason the references seem to go back and forth on the issue is because it varied by the need of the situation or story needed telling not because there was some link to the core philosophy of the movement.

[LAGC]

I think you have to be careful linking Christianity and weapons. Simply put weapons are not in the plan of salvation. One reason the references seem to go back and forth on the issue is because it varied by the need of the situation or story needed telling not because there was some link to the core philosophy of the movement.

If you study the Bible or Koran in any detail, you'll find that they each speak on both sides of MANY issues, not just weapons/non-violence.

How else can you have both liberal and conservative Christians? Or radical and moderate Muslims?

They all cherry-pick parts of their Holy Book that they agree with, and simply disregard or downplay all the parts that don't.

Either way God/Allah wins, and has all bases covered.

[was_peacemaker]

This liberal chick from Spain decided to gear it up at me for being American. Here is her post to my video and then my reply.

Her post : "Ho-ho! Along the history course, many were the nations that attacked other people and they had many "reasons" to do so; political, religious, economical, or just the pleasure of making war. all of us (it doesn't matter our nationality) have been murdered or murderers. I think one of the most beautiful things of history is that you can really learn from your ancestor's mistakes and build a brighter future in a more solid base. I am not saying that we shouldn't show our claws, because there's times in which we are really forced to fight; but that should be the last thing to do! violence only generates more violence, people's memory has a terrific way of remembering the offenses committed against them, and with your attitude the only thing that we'll achieve is more wars, destruction and chaos. Call me idealistic, or even dreamer, but we should stood in the name of peace always.
plus, we're not going to live forever and the human race has an interesting way to adapt to new situations. I believe that new cultures can induce us new values and destroy some negative ones. I don't want to offend, but many of you americans have this unbearable arrogance that , honestly, it makes me sick. Who has told you that you hold the truth? Truth is delusional! We should try to give some peaceful values to our future generations and end with this chain of fear and violence. It's not a gun that It's going to save ya, buddy, but the memory that you leave in the others. Life is so short and we spend it like this, debating, fighting, standing for things that at the end they were never truly ours."


My reply : "If truth is delusional then how do you define this peace you stand for? Is it delusional to? Poetic ramblings don't create solutions to real world problems. You said violence only created more violence. If that is the case then why is the British not in power here in the States? What caused them to leave?

I also have no idea what your ramblings have to do with the video. Did you even watch part of it? If this American is so arrogant then why am I posting a video hosted by a Russian? The video is about preparing ones weapon handling skills. That is not promoting violence anymore than learning to handle power tools promoted burglary. Weapons are tools nothing more. The host of this video is to rifle handling what Bob Vila is to drill bit tips. Just teachers of tools, nothing more."

[was_peacemaker]

My fellow "Science People" get the same way when you show them that a theory they hold dear.... is bullshit. IN many ways Science is it's own religion and can, on occasion, be quite inflexible.


I'm looking at you Global Warmers....

Yeah I noticed that scientist can be like preachers. Five different guys in physics can give you five different ways that the big-bang happened. Just like five different preachers can give you five different interpretations of a set of verses or books of the Bible.

[mriddick]

If you study the Bible or Koran in any detail, you'll find that they each speak on both sides of MANY issues, not just weapons/non-violence.

How else can you have both liberal and conservative Christians? Or radical and moderate Muslims?

They all cherry-pick parts of their Holy Book that they agree with, and simply disregard or downplay all the parts that don't.

Either way God/Allah wins, and has all bases covered.

That is because the Bible is not a self defense manual or other things people like to use it for. People like to think what they believe is what the Bible says, so it's not unusual for many to read into it what they want. I am not against self defense, I just don't look to the Bible to back or detract from that position.

[5.56NATO]

Was it the Ellen White cult/adl/mossad that told you guns are bad?

[Krupski]

I unfortunately see this a lot with many religious types. I often wonder if they have read where Moses, Abraham, Joshua, Samson, David were all men of God and were prepared. I wonder if all those dead Christians in Dafur would have liked to have been armed when the psycho Muslims came rolling in? Where do people get this idea that Christians shouldn't be armed?

And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." -Luke 22:35-38

I think I'll take His advice.

[coppertales]

warm coat and buy a sword..............chris3

[Krupski]

warm coat and buy a sword..............chris3

Don't have to. I already have a "sword" (i.e. weapon).

[L1A1Rocker]

I get very tired about this part of religion because it often stems from a mistranslation of the Ten Commandments. "Thou shalt not Kill" was mistranslated. The correct translation is "Thou shalt not murder". I'm sure those here can see there is a BIG difference.

This correct translation holds true as we learn from Ecclesiastes:

1 There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—

3 A time to kill and a time to heal;
A time to tear down and a time to build up.

There IS a time to kill, but never a time to murder.

[Kadmos]

I really can't believe I have to be the one to point this out

But I don't think I've ever seen such a willful misinterpretation of a bible passage to suit one's own purposes as you all are doing here.


Sell your warm cloak and buy a sword.

The scene is him and his disciples knowing the Romans are coming for Jesus. As the disciples want to fight and save him he is saying they will go out and meet them. He rebukes their desire to fight by saying if you want to fight then sell your WARM cloak and buy a sword.

It's not an order, he kind of being sarcastic...give up your useful warm coat and get a sword that you won't need if that's what you really want to do.

They tell him they found 2 swords.

He tells them that is enough. (Either to drop the issue, or that the 2 swords will be plenty for the at least 12 people)

Then as the Romans come and the men with swords begin to draw them he says to put them away, that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.

He doesn't want his people killed when he gets taken, he wants them to see what is coming.

He goes willingly to the cross.

The symbol of the religion is the cross, the fact that he willingly gave up his life to save mankind (for your sins, whichever your sect believes)

The whole point is that he wasn't going to fight, he wasn't going to let his men fight.


I've got no dog in the argument of whether it is Cristian or not to own guns...certainly millions do, to me the morality of them is in their use, not their ownership.

But, Jesus was obviously trying to teach non-violence, whether you take that as completely non-violence or simply an attempt at non violent conflict resolution is up to you.

But the "buy a sword" thing is being misused way out of obvious context here.

[mriddick]

"as you all are doing"

I must be on ignore...