There is no originality anymore...

[Zoff12]

Seriously… there isn’t. Look at some of the NEW firearms coming out. Just a recycling of something that either didn’t sell well under one name or did sell well at one time and has slacked off. None the less… they bring it back out as new and the gun writers don’t mention that firearm “A” is the same one as firearm “B” and sometimes “C”. Was looking at my new issue of Handguns. There is an article on the Magnum Research Baby Eagle. The author goes through this big description like this is some new weapon but it is nothing but a Walther P99/Smith & Wesson SW99. I have noticed this with several NEW firearms. So… when did gun makers stop thinking and start regurgitating?

[Charliebravo]

I think they've just reached the limits on what small arms can do. Take the .223 for example. You basically just need a platform to throw a 55-62 grain bullet downrange at 2,900 to 3,200 fps. You can improve ergonomics or reliability, but it's still the same bullet at the same velocity. The target, whether human or paper, can't tell if that bullet came out of a Mini-14, AR, AK, Masada, XCR, or Galil. The AK has been tweaked some, but has remained essentially the same weapon for 60 years. Why fix it if it ain't broke?

[aliceinchains]

when did gun makers stop thinking and start regurgitating.


Right now

[Kadmos]

Its what the people want.

If you do something too radical it fails.

It may get a few buyers, but people have general expectations of what a gun should look like.

Case in point, I was at Cabelas the other day and noticed a man looking for a .22 pistol, his first gun. It was obvious he had the preconception that it should look like a glock. And he was looking at the Walther 22. When he asked the salesman what his opinion was the salesman handed him a Ruger MkIII and a Ruger 22/45, then a Browning Buckmark. He explained to the man that the Ruger and the Browning were excellent target guns as well as good for hunting.

The salesman said neither a good word nor a bad word on the Walther, but the implication was clear that he considered it a poor choice for target or hunting.

Guess what the guy bought....the Walther.

I can't think of a single reason that man bought that gun aside from the "look"


Add to that the fact that reputation is nearly everything in the gun business, a flop or a slight design flaw really hurts.

And of course the cost of designing and testing has gone through the roof.

[Blacksmith]

IMO
They can’t go any further with semi auto.
The Kriss is the next generation. but it is worthless in semi.
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...ss%20super%20v

[sisyphus]

Personally, until they come up with a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range, I'd just as soon they not dink around with newer revelations in firearms development. The last innovations that come to mind would do nothing to further any progress and would only hinder either the reliability of the weapons or more severely hamper the RKBA (if you can believe that's possible, given current gun control attitudes).

Examples of those "innovations" were, as I recall:

A) The "caseless cartridge" firearm, where ammo would only be manufactured in a factory and thus allow for limited availability, dictated by TPTB. Reliability issues were evident as well. No more possibility for reloading, and thus.......less likelihood that rabid freedom lovers might take it upon themselves to provide for their own ammo needs.

B) Electronic primer ignition, which flopped because it was unreliable, unpopular and economically unfeasible.

C) Safety-coded weapons, which would be as much of a joke as the policies in some AO's where ammo and guns must be locked in separate storage containers at all times. Ultimately, all it was is just another attempt to exercize more control over peoples' ability to defend themselves or to rebel against tyranny.

[mriddick]

The baby eagle use to be based on the cz75, are you saying it's now based on the SW99?

[Partisan1983]

Get rid of all the socialist small arms laws.....and you would see a renaissance of EPIC proportions.



Until then, you really ain't gonna see shit

[Zoff12]

The baby eagle use to be based on the cz75, are you saying it's now based on the SW99?

Not "based"... copied...
SW99

P99

Baby Eagle


It's not just this one. I have noticed several new guns coming out that were just a re-label of another brand.

[alismith]

The only big differences I've seen in guns, recently, is in the BP, and Cowboy, market. While not necessarily "new," companies are bringing out different models that were unobtainable just 10 years ago. They are copies of rare, expensive models that are able to be used, without fear of destroying the value of an antique. There's, also, been a resurgence of "conversion" models.

Modern, inline BP rifles are prolific now. A few years back, you had about 5 choices, at best. And, new innovations are coming along, too. CVA has the "Electra Arc" rifle that uses electronic ignition and Savage has a Model 10ML that uses either BP or smokeless, modern powder.

As far as modern firearms go, I'd say that Taurus is making more models of new innovations, especially with their "Judge" series of handguns and rifles.

Other than these few examples, I don't see much change elsewhere.

[swampdragon]

Not "based"... copied...
SW99

P99

Baby Eagle


It's not just this one. I have noticed several new guns coming out that were just a re-label of another brand.

Wow.
Slight diff in the molding, but that's it.
You're right!

[raxar]

As far as modern firearms go, I'd say that Taurus is making more models of new innovations, especially with their "Judge" series of handguns and rifles.

but the judge isn't anything new, there was a 45/410 revolver out several years before it came to be.

[imanaknut]

If there is no more originality, what is the Kel-Tec RFB a copy of, or an update of???

Remember, you said firearms in your opening post, not pistols.

[Zoff12]

If there is no more originality, what is the Kel-Tec RFB a copy of, or an update of???

Remember, you said firearms in your opening post, not pistols.

Correct! There are a few exceptions. The RFB is, obviously, one of them. I should have stated "Pistols".

There are several others out there that are just name changes or blatent copies of existing firearms...

Stoeger Cougar = Beretta Cougar
EAA Zastava EZ or CZ99 = SIG P22x series
AMT Lightning = Ruger MkII

There are several others that came out in the last year but I can't think of the names at this time. What's my point? Seems like when this is done... nobody... expecially the writers... bother to mention this. Seems like it would be an important detail to mention.

[mriddick]

Wow.
Slight diff in the molding, but that's it.
You're right!

The baby eagle has never been an original design, the first ones were based off the CZ75, now it looks like they are rebranding the SW99...

[alismith]

but the judge isn't anything new, there was a 45/410 revolver out several years before it came to be.

There were a few prior .45/.410 handguns to The Judge, but they were either SA revolvers (Magnum Research, for example) or single shot pistols (Thompson Center or SGS). The innovation that Taurus made was to make them in DA revolvers and then a revolver carbine. I could be wrong in this, but it's all I've found so far in my searches.

I do know there was a single-shot, short-barreled .410 shotgun pistol (no rifling in barrel) made in the very early 1900's, before they were outlawed in 1938. The name had something to do with cars as they were designed to be carried under the seat of a car for protection. They were very similar in shape to the present-day Thompson Contender pistol series.

[AK-J]

There were a few prior .45/.410 handguns to The Judge, but they were either SA revolvers (Magnum Research, for example) or single shot pistols (Thompson Center or SGS). The innovation that Taurus made was to make them in DA revolvers and then a revolver carbine. I could be wrong in this, but it's all I've found so far in my searches.

I do know there was a single-shot, short-barreled .410 shotgun pistol (no rifling in barrel) made in the very early 1900's, before they were outlawed in 1938. The name had something to do with cars as they were designed to be carried under the seat of a car for protection. They were very similar in shape to the present-day Thompson Contender pistol series.

The orginal 5 shot .410/.45 colt DA revolver was the Thunder 5 pistol. The Judge almost appears to be a direct copy.

[Gunreference1]

I do know there was a single-shot, short-barreled .410 shotgun pistol (no rifling in barrel) made in the very early 1900's, before they were outlawed in 1938. The name had something to do with cars as they were designed to be carried under the seat of a car for protection. They were very similar in shape to the present-day Thompson Contender pistol series.

I believe that would be the H&R Handy-Gun



These were made from 1924-1934. The U.S. Government deemed them a smooth bore handgun instead of a shotgun and made them illegal, unless registered.

Steve

[alismith]

The orginal 5 shot .410/.45 colt DA revolver was the Thunder 5 pistol. The Judge almost appears to be a direct copy.

You're right. I remember that one, now.

[alismith]

I believe that would be the H&R Handy-Gun



These were made from 1924-1934. The U.S. Government deemed them a smooth bore handgun instead of a shotgun and made them illegal, unless registered.

Steve

That's it! I shot one of them years and years ago. Got a busted lip from it, too.