#4 Birdshot

[old Grump]

Another discussion with another expert on another site who absolutely chastised and berated anybody and everybody for daring to use anything but 00 out of a 12 gauge. A young lad posted a propane cylinder with several holes at 50' with #4 shot and his 12 gauge. Our expert immediately called him ignorant, that was 4 buck not #4 shot says he without having been there to witness the shooting.

Well you know me, any excuse to shoot is a good excuse so out comes the #8, #7 1/2, #6, #4 and #3 bird shot. Mr. 20 gauge Mossberg was happy to play a starring role.

First shot with #4 at a freestanding gas cylinder poked a few holes in it, squished to half thickness and sent it back about 20' into the yard from a distance of 24' because that is the longest shot I would ever get in my house. The empty 20 gauge hull with the 2 3/4" and #4 clearly marked is what bent up my little gas tank.

Then a hunk of rough cut, true dimension 2x4 starting with #8 and slowly working my way up in 12" intervals. first #8 and # 7 1/2 shot clean through at 20'. #6 shot knocked big chunks off the board and #4 destroyed it. I didn't get a chance to shoot the #3. in retrospect I should have used a 2x8 or 2x10 to show Mr. expert.

Well he conceded it was impressive but then stated flat out that it wasn't reliable enough and I should be ashamed of myself for suggesting people use what they felt comfortable with and not follow his golden advice of 00 or better in 12 gauge but certainly not anything less.

Well that's good enough for me, he is right, I am wrong and the evidence I saw was obviously a fluke. Sorry, no picture of 2x4, last shot made it into kindling. Sigh, some peoples kids just can't give on a point even with the pudding in front of them.

[cevulirn]

I still prefer #4 buck for 2 legged vermin. Holds its energy a little better past that 24 foot mark.

I definitely wouldn't want to catch any #4 shot though,

[abpt1]

Another discussion with another expert on another site who absolutely chastised and berated anybody and everybody for daring to use anything but 00 out of a 12 gauge. A young lad posted a propane cylinder with several holes at 50' with #4 shot and his 12 gauge. Our expert immediately called him ignorant, that was 4 buck not #4 shot says he without having been there to witness the shooting.

Well you know me, any excuse to shoot is a good excuse so out comes the #8, #7 1/2, #6, #4 and #3 bird shot. Mr. 20 gauge Mossberg was happy to play a starring role.

First shot with #4 at a freestanding gas cylinder poked a few holes in it, squished to half thickness and sent it back about 20' into the yard from a distance of 24' because that is the longest shot I would ever get in my house. The empty 20 gauge hull with the 2 3/4" and #4 clearly marked is what bent up my little gas tank.

Then a hunk of rough cut, true dimension 2x4 starting with #8 and slowly working my way up in 12" intervals. first #8 and # 7 1/2 shot clean through at 20'. #6 shot knocked big chunks off the board and #4 destroyed it. I didn't get a chance to shoot the #3. in retrospect I should have used a 2x8 or 2x10 to show Mr. expert.

Well he conceded it was impressive but then stated flat out that it wasn't reliable enough and I should be ashamed of myself for suggesting people use what they felt comfortable with and not follow his golden advice of 00 or better in 12 gauge but certainly not anything less.

Well that's good enough for me, he is right, I am wrong and the evidence I saw was obviously a fluke. Sorry, no picture of 2x4, last shot made it into kindling. Sigh, some peoples kids just can't give on a point even with the pudding in front of them.

OG f that guy just another internet hero.....My guess is that he has never even killed anything with his SG ....I have destroyed lots of stuff with #4 mostly copper heads and frogs its made a spot every time.... I am damn sure I would not ever want to take a round of #4 to the chest ...

[AKTexas]

With the discussion of the shotshell poll I made and reading through all the post I decided to experiment this weekend with my stock of various shells.

My uncle keeps #4 and then the last two rounds are 00 buck just in case the person is coming after 8 shots of #4.

[ltorlo64]

With the discussion of the shotshell poll I made and reading through all the post I decided to experiment this weekend with my stock of various shells.

My uncle keeps #4 and then the last two rounds are 00 buck just in case the person is coming after 8 shots of #4.

I won't go into how I found this out, but I shot a dog once, at about 100 yards with 71/2 bird shot from a full choked 870 12 gage. The dog was knocked head over heals, like he had been kicked by a horse. He then got up and came back to me. I took him to the vet where the vet found nothing wrong with him, the coat had stopped most of the pellets. I think bird shot would make a good, non-lethal load past about 50 yards. Still alot of energy to knock you down, but not alot of penetrating power. I think that they tests you ran and the young man did with the gas can show that.

[Notch]

I have always been a big proponent of 4 shot as a home defense load. At the shooting distances experienced in a home defense scenario it is devastating.

I also like to tell the folks that I deal with that they should train with what they intend to use in their defense firearms (load, not quality). Thus, dont "train" or practice with 8 or 9 and load up later with 00...

Trigger time is so very important, but 00 can be too much of a pounding for many, and it is easier to get many folks to put lots of time "behind the gun" with the more forgiving 4 shot. Their practice and ability with the firearm will far outweigh any benefits you might be able to find with the 00 at this range.

[RJ Shooter]

In home defense situations, the shot (no matter how small) may not even leave the wad! Rock Salt can be deadly in normal home defense! A large, frangible slug is what you end up with...

Morons will be morons, no matter how much evidence is thrown at them!

[alismith]

I have always been a big proponent of 4 shot as a home defense load. At the shooting distances experienced in a home defense scenario it is devastating.

I also like to tell the folks that I deal with that they should train with what they intend to use in their defense firearms (load, not quality). Thus, dont "train" or practice with 8 or 9 and load up later with 00...

Trigger time is so very important, but 00 can be too much of a pounding for many, and it is easier to get many folks to put lots of time "behind the gun" with the more forgiving 4 shot. Their practice and ability with the firearm will far outweigh any benefits you might be able to find with the 00 at this range.

A hit with anything is better than a miss with the big stuff.

[El Jefe]

While I do keep 00 buck around at all times, I hate to think at close range what even #8 birdshot would do to you. If you can knock a bird out of the air at 30 yards I'd imagine at 5 yards it would flat ruin your f'ing day.

[AKTexas]

While I do keep 00 buck around at all times, I hate to think at close range what even #8 birdshot would do to you. If you can knock a bird out of the air at 30 yards I'd imagine at 5 yards it would flat ruin your f'ing day.

No kidding,like smashing your testicles.

[FunkyPertwee]

I still prefer #4 buck for 2 legged vermin. Holds its energy a little better past that 24 foot mark.

I definitely wouldn't want to catch any #4 shot though,

I didn't know there was a difference in shot and buck. Do you mean high brass and low brass?

[old Grump]

I didn't know there was a difference in shot and buck. Do you mean high brass and low brass?

http://www.shotgunworld.com/shot_sizes.jpg

Books me lad get some books and read them or if all else fails try google. Nothing to do with high or low brass.

[FunkyPertwee]

http://www.shotgunworld.com/shot_sizes.jpg

Books me lad get some books and read them or if all else fails try google. Nothing to do with high or low brass.

Thanks for the instruction. It was a hole in my knowlege I didn't know existed.

I always figured it ranged from 8 to 000 with no seperation between birdshot and buckshot. I never would have guessed.

[old Grump]

Heck, if I don't learn something new every day it was a day wasted. Nothing more fun than sitting down with a reloading manual even if you don't intend to reload and just read the book. Then you get another on casting and another on shotshells and another by a bulet manufacturer and each is different and the next thing you know you have an addiction. Even worse it might get you some crazy ideas and the next thing you know you are debating the pros and cons of a progressive press vs a handy dandy lee loader you can keep in the glove compartment for those days when you are stuck in traffic or you want something to do with your hands while watching Old Gunsmoke reruns.

[Blacksmith]

My uncle keeps #4 and then the last two rounds are 00 buck just in case the person is coming after 8 shots of #4.

I do basically the same thing. the first shot is bird shot. If I have to take a second, it’s buck.
Unless you are defending against a bear or something really tough, the bird shot is going to mess it up in a bad way.
IMO
If you're going to play around with them at the range, I recommend picking up a piece of drywall and also loading up some rock salt. for you guys with kids sleeping in the next room or living in an apartment, it will give you a good idea of what the aftermath will be.

[HDR]

In home defense situations, the shot (no matter how small) may not even leave the wad! Rock Salt can be deadly in normal home defense! A large, frangible slug is what you end up with...

And a large frangible slug will ruin it's visit.

Morons will be morons, no matter how much evidence is thrown at them!

Ditto, from the early years of the last century to today a lot of soldiers carried a 9mm loaded with FMJ. Sixty or so years later, magazine writers and internet experts decided the 9mm wasn't up to the job. Unfortunately, those who were killed with a 9mm couldn't rise from the dead and join the debate.

lol

[Notch]

A hit with anything is better than a miss with the big stuff.

exactly.

[matshock]

I have some Fiocchi 00 low recoil- 8 pellets instead of 9 and about 100-150 fps slower than full 00 but it is indeed very mild and groups well.

I went that way because I need my pump shotgun for CA trips and want to stay flexible- so I have a mix of 00, 00 low recoil and slugs on a bandoleer.

But if I -only- used it for home defense I wouldn't feel under-armed with #4.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

[HDR]

But if I -only- used it for home defense I wouldn't feel under-armed with #4.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

As I would never shoot through 6 sheet of sheet rock what was their point?

Maybe two sheets of sheet rock separated by studs then a room would be the max for most home defense situations.

[skorpion]

I live in a four-plex apartment building, so some birdshot will be flying if anyone stumbles into my abode, and I will not feel undergunned at all. #6, #6, #6, #4 Buck, and 00 Buck. With that said, I would not want to get hit with buckshot nor birdshot, no matter what size it is!