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Thread: Helmets: needed or not?

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    Senior Member Sergi762's Avatar

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    Helmets: needed or not?

    Looking for opinions here.
    I see the usual First aid, MRE's ,and assorted camping/ survival supplies mentioned time and time again but rarely if ever things like headgear, armor & the like. If, in a given scenario, there is a need to keep moving under hostile conditions how useful would a helmet( steel, Kevlar, etc)or body armor be? Is it worth it? I May be dumb to ask but no dumber than keeping silent. I thank ya and wish you a happy new Year

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    Guns Network Lifetime Membership 01/2011 old Grump's Avatar

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    If I was still young and climbing and rappelling I can think of more than a few times I wished I would have been wearing a helmet. Have been on fairly easy white water runs in a canoe with a partner who wasn't to handy where I wished I had been wearing a helmet but mostly I just want a hat to keep the sun and falling things out of my eyes and to act as a bump warning by my brim hitting something I hadn't noticed. Unless you expect to engage the enemy with the intention of having a shoot out with him I would think a battle helmet would be a bit much. I'm of the school where I keep my head down and my butt lower and avoid those kinds of shenanigans if at all possible.

    The only activity I do now that might make a helmet a good idea is felling trees with a chainsaw. I have never been seriously hurt doing that but I have one friend who broke his neck and had to retire as a naturalist with the DNR and another who was our next door neighbor and a deputy sheriff. He broke his neck and died when a rotten branch fell out off a tree he was cutting down for another neighbor of ours, . Another friend has a messed up neck and shoulder that might have been prevented had he been wearing a helmet or at least not hurt as bad. So my answer is depends on what you are doing.

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    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    If you're talking the SHTF scenario ... maybe. A kevlar helmet doest eat anything so it's low cost to maintain. Steel helmets, (WWII to Vietnam) are mostly good for keeping you from bumping your head if you dive for cover, they don't stop any bullets. Possibly they might stop a handgun round at distances of 100 yds plus if it doesn't hit dead square to the surface. Kevlar will stop handgun rounds that hit directly vs. a steep angle glancing blow. I've seen it stop a .30 carbine round at 100 yards. However, all center fire rifle rounds other than the .30 Carbine go right through at least one side. They stop shrapnel and would be good for lessening an attack by a club or rock wielding attacker.

    On body armor, sure is better than a shirt if you get shot on the whole. As you should know there's armor that will stop handgun bullets and amror that will stop rifle rounds. The more powerful the round it stops, the more expensive the armor is going to be. The cheapest armor would be A500 hardened steel plates, but bullets that stike these plates are shattered if they hit straingt on, that means high speed bullet fragments exploding off the plates hanging on your chest. If the bullet comes in at a shallow angle it will bounce off and keep on going at high speed. Your arms are at risk from injury with such armor unless you can capture the fragments so they don't splatter. Ceramic plates absorb a rifle round but break up becoming useless after a few hits.

    All this stuff weighs a lot, you will be slower wearing it and you will stick out wearing it. All that said, having been a Boy Scout and a believer in their motto "Be Prepared" I would say if you can afford it without going into debt to get the gear, go for it. Like a firearm, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

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    Senior Member NAPOTS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    If you're talking the SHTF scenario ... maybe. A kevlar helmet doest eat anything so it's low cost to maintain. Steel helmets, (WWII to Vietnam) are mostly good for keeping you from bumping your head if you dive for cover, they don't stop any bullets. Possibly they might stop a handgun round at distances of 100 yds plus if it doesn't hit dead square to the surface. Kevlar will stop handgun rounds that hit directly vs. a steep angle glancing blow. I've seen it stop a .30 carbine round at 100 yards. However, all center fire rifle rounds other than the .30 Carbine go right through at least one side. They stop shrapnel and would be good for lessening an attack by a club or rock wielding attacker.

    On body armor, sure is better than a shirt if you get shot on the whole. As you should know there's armor that will stop handgun bullets and amror that will stop rifle rounds. The more powerful the round it stops, the more expensive the armor is going to be. The cheapest armor would be A500 hardened steel plates, but bullets that stike these plates are shattered if they hit straingt on, that means high speed bullet fragments exploding off the plates hanging on your chest. If the bullet comes in at a shallow angle it will bounce off and keep on going at high speed. Your arms are at risk from injury with such armor unless you can capture the fragments so they don't splatter. Ceramic plates absorb a rifle round but break up becoming useless after a few hits.

    All this stuff weighs a lot, you will be slower wearing it and you will stick out wearing it. All that said, having been a Boy Scout and a believer in their motto "Be Prepared" I would say if you can afford it without going into debt to get the gear, go for it. Like a firearm, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
    Let me add that a K-Pot weighs a friggin ton and wearing one all days sucks. If you are going for affordable body armor you are probably looking at a PASGT vest which is pretty worthless. They too are very heavy and a bitch to more around in.

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    Guns Network Contributor 04/2013 El Laton Caliente's Avatar

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    and all of that stuff is going to blow cover as a non-combatant...

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    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Police style soft armor is probably what most of us would get the most out of.
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    Senior Member ready's Avatar

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    If you buy the A500 steel plates I wouldn't wear them as stand alone armor for the reasons mentioned above. Get some cheap concealable soft armor and wear the plate beneath it. It will prevent the bullet splash.

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    Team Gunsnet SILVER 05/2012 deth502's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Laton Caliente View Post
    and all of that stuff is going to blow cover as a non-combatant...
    this exactly.

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    Senior Member Sergi762's Avatar

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    And I'd buy it if I thought it would be good for longer than 5 years.It isn't any cheaper today then before.
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Police style soft armor is probably what most of us would get the most out of.

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    Senior Member Sergi762's Avatar

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    A year later and I'm still debating this nonsense. I mean I was a scout too at one point and I agree with the above the sentiment all too well. But armor is heavy with plates being considered ( assuming I go with metal plates, as steel doesn't have a 5 year expiration date) and lugging around a 308 W/ ammo & gear isn't going to make that any easier. Hmmm

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    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergi762 View Post
    A year later and I'm still debating this nonsense. I mean I was a scout too at one point and I agree with the above the sentiment all too well. But armor is heavy with plates being considered ( assuming I go with metal plates, as steel doesn't have a 5 year expiration date) and lugging around a 308 W/ ammo & gear isn't going to make that any easier. Hmmm
    http://bulletproofme.com/index.shtml
    http://www.thetargetman.com/
    I didn't see any links earlier in this thread, so her are a few I use to look at / research the topic from time to time. In particular the Spartan brand of A500 plates with the coating to absorb bullet splatter seem quite good. Those are at thetarget.man link.

    On body armor (soft Kevlar) going bad in 5 years, I'm not convince it does. Especially if you don't wear it every day. I purchased a Vietnam era Kevlar lower body armor, protects the buttocks and groin, hips to a degree. This was 1996 when I picked it up cheap, actually I got two sets for $20 bucks each. One was a small, would fit a woman or a male under 14 to 16 depending. I shot the small one with 147 gr. XTP 9 mm HP rounds doing just under 1000 fps. It stopped the round cold in it's tracks. The firing distance was about 5 paces, so damn close, say 12 feet more or less. I shot it 5 times, every round stopped, no penetration. Now that was 26 year old body armor and granted I didn't use a .357 magnum or even 115 gr. FMJ 9 mm on it, but still it was a lot better than a pair of Blue Jeans.
    Last edited by Schuetzenman; 05-16-2014 at 06:19 PM.

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    Senior Member ready's Avatar

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    The old kevlar weave will have an indefinite shelf life if not worn every day and stored properly. The new laminates are lightweight but they lack the longevity of good old fashioned kevlar. Especially when they are exposed to heat.

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    Senior Member ready's Avatar

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    On thr AR500 armor...I have 2 sets of "shooters cut" curved plates with the spall mitigation coating. They weigh about the same as SAPIs and no worries about integrity.

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    Senior Member Partisan1983's Avatar

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    Last edited by Partisan1983; 05-17-2014 at 05:16 PM.
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    Senior Member ready's Avatar

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    I have the AR500 armor ones and the target man ones. The nice thing is how thin they are compared to ceramic or PE. I can put mine under a flannel and you can't even tell I'm wearing anything.

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    I see no problem with a kevlar helmet. I in fact have two, one for me and one for my wife. Both are about 15 years old. MAYBE they will loose some effectiveness, maybe not. Even with no other body armor on, your head is protected cheaply, as you can get an old pasgt for 25-40 bucks if you shop around. In a bad situation, your head would be exposed most often anyway in shooting, or being behind cover, so I do not see the harm in wearing one. We would have no other armor on, but I simply cannot afford the stuff. Protecting my head is more important anyway.
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    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruskiegunlover View Post
    I see no problem with a kevlar helmet. I in fact have two, one for me and one for my wife. Both are about 15 years old. MAYBE they will loose some effectiveness, maybe not. Even with no other body armor on, your head is protected cheaply, as you can get an old pasgt for 25-40 bucks if you shop around. In a bad situation, your head would be exposed most often anyway in shooting, or being behind cover, so I do not see the harm in wearing one. We would have no other armor on, but I simply cannot afford the stuff. Protecting my head is more important anyway.
    You can get a set of plates (front and back only) from the target man for under $180 delivered. Pair that with an inexpensive plate carrier and you have a set of body armor that will stand up to multiple hits with a .308 for somewhere around $225. Sounds like cheap insurance to me.

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    how would interceptor body armor rank up?... soft armor only minus the plates? also I think a pagst helmet is a good addition.

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