Cap and ball revolver questions ( again)

[davepool]

I did it.

Hellen Kellers post got me thinkin about it and old grumps post on winter shooting pushed me over the line

I went out today and bought a Uberti stainless steel Remington 1858 new army revolver( will take some pics and post them as soon as my wife goes to bed....don't ask,it's a long story).

The shop had a nice used Ruger old army exactly like grumps, that i really wanted but i set my budget at $600 and i could not talk him down from $675. The Uberti was new in the box and shiny....i'm a sucker for shiny guns, and it was only $450.

I've been searching around the web and i think i have the basics figured out, but i have few questions.

What's the difference between #10 & #11 caps? Haven't found any #11s
I can't find any Black powder, but i found some Pyrodex that's says it's a good substitute for FFFG, picked up a pound for $20
The manuel says to use .454/.457 balls (haven't found any locally yet), but doesn't give any recommendations for powder or caps,
It says to use between 19 and 30 grains, is this a volume or weight measurement ?

Last question. Is Uberti a good gun maker?

[alismith]

I did it.

Hellen Kellers post got me thinkin about it and old grumps post on winter shooting pushed me over the line

I went out today and bought a Uberti stainless steel Remington 1858 new army revolver( will take some pics and post them as soon as my wife goes to bed....don't ask,it's a long story).

The shop had a nice used Ruger old army exactly like grumps, that i really wanted but i set my budget at $600 and i could not talk him down from $675. The Uberti was new in the box and shiny....i'm a sucker for shiny guns, and it was only $450.

I've been searching around the web and i think i have the basics figured out, but i have few questions.

What's the difference between #10 & #11 caps? Haven't found any #11s
I can't find any Black powder, but i found some Pyrodex that's says it's a good substitute for FFFG, picked up a pound for $20
The manuel says to use .454/.457 balls (haven't found any locally yet), but doesn't give any recommendations for powder or caps,
It says to use between 19 and 30 grains, is this a volume or weight measurement ?

Last question. Is Uberti a good gun maker?

To help with a few questions:

Uberti is a fine BP firearms maker. High quality all the way.

There is only a slight difference between #10 and #11 caps. I believe #11's are the smaller ones. If either cap is a little too large, just carefully pinch the sides together a little for a snug fit on the nipple. I pinch all my caps for a snug fit.

As far as I know, try to use .454 pure lead round balls in your Uberti. The .457 were primarily made for the Ruger Old Army. .457 will work in the Uberti, but they'll be harder to seat. Even in revolvers that call for .451 RB, I use .454 as they are tighter.

Pyrodex is fine for caplocks (not flintlocks); so are the other BP substitutes. Just make sure they are equivalent to either FFg or FFFg BP as those are the pistol sized powder granulations. $20 isn't a bad price right now. I just picked up a lb. of Triple 7 for $23.

In my non-Ruger .45 revolvers, I'm using about 25 gr. of powder. I believe the grains refers to volume when using BP-substitute powders (I use the same powder measures for both BP and BP-substitutes). Actually, with BP, and the size of the cylinders, you can't really overcharge the cylinder. BP is forgiving in that respect.

[davepool]

Here it is:


I posted this pic cause my wife uses our photobucket account and this is a pre-emptory photo( she doesn't know i bought it yet) to remind her that the flowers from her garden cost me about $2000 a year to keep on the table and the hat cost me about $100,000 putting my sons through college....so my gun addiction is a bargain

Thanks Alismith, that's what i needed to know.

[alismith]

Here it is:


I posted this pic cause my wife uses our photobucket account and this is a pre-emptory photo( she doesn't know i bought it yet) to remind her that the flowers from her garden cost me about $2000 a year to keep on the table and the hat cost me about $100,000 putting my sons through college....so my gun addiction is a bargain

Thanks Alismith, that's what i needed to know.

Beautiful revolver. I have the polished, Stainless steel, 5" barrelled version of that one. Nice shooter, too.

[cootertwo]

Ahhh, the good old days. I've been married, and divorced 3 times. No more hiding my toys, and I have a chit load now. Don't take my word for it, but I don't believe you could get enough black powder in there, to hurt anything. Just gotta leave enough room to squeeze the ball in enough to clear. And as with ANY "Black Powder" weapon, don't EVER, EVER use anything but black powder, or it's equivalent.

[Richard Simmons]

Congrats! That's a good looking piece. After reading this I've got the itch to get mine dirty.

[ltorlo64]

Those are both very nice. I am usually partial to the blued BP revolvers, but that stainless just looks right. Let us know how it shoots.

[alismith]

Here's a few of mine:

This is my 5" barrelled. .44 Remington in SS.


This is my Pocket Remington in .31 cal.


This is my standard .44 Remington.


This is my Sheriff's Model Army .44.


Here's my Remington .44 Cavalry Carbine.


Here's my .44 Buffalo Colt copy.


Here's my Starr .44 Double/Single action revolver. (I've always wanted a double action BP revolver.)


My Traditions .50 cal. deer hunting pistol.


A few vest pocket .22 and .22 Mag. BP revolvers.


That's all the ones I have pics of right now. Needless to say, I love BP.

[davepool]

Damn nice collection you have there, i can see you are definitely the go to guy for my BP questions.

I have everything i need but the lead ball, can't seem to find any, any where. There are a couple more sources i can check tomorrow locally, most of the shops i called yesterday have gotten out of BP for lack of interest.

The more i research this, the more anxious i get to start this new shooting hobby. If it's as much fun as it seems , i may have a collection like yours someday

I'm a bit surprised at how hard it is to find components, i understand the shortages in center fire, but i thought the availability of BP materials wouldn't be impacted

I bet that sheriffs model is a real flame thrower

[NAPOTS]

Damn nice collection you have there, i can see you are definitely the go to guy for my BP questions.

I have everything i need but the lead ball, can't seem to find any, any where. There are a couple more sources i can check tomorrow locally, most of the shops i called yesterday have gotten out of BP for lack of interest.

The more i research this, the more anxious i get to start this new shooting hobby. If it's as much fun as it seems , i may have a collection like yours someday

I'm a bit surprised at how hard it is to find components, i understand the shortages in center fire, but i thought the availability of BP materials wouldn't be impacted

I bet that sheriffs model is a real flame thrower

Dont forget the crisco!

My dad used to fill up a chew tin with it. You'll want to fill up the front of the cyllinders after you get the balls seated.

Also, if my memory serves me right, bring another gun to shoot with you because the revolver will get pretty gummed up after you run a few cyllinders through it. I think it was around 5 or 6.

[Richard Simmons]

Instead of crisco I use a treated patch under the ball when I seat it in the cylinder. The chamber mouth cuts it to size. It's worked great for me. If the chamber mouth is shaving off a ring of lead when you seat the ball you should be getting an airtight seal anyway but the patch just adds more insurance.

[O.S.O.K.]

Nice buy! You will really enjoy that. The 1858's are the most user-friendly of the bunch and the Ruger's are basically just modernized 1858's.

They also hold a bit more powder than the 1860's and other 44 designs - 40 grains vs about 35. That gives a little extra poop if you want it.

Most cap and ball revolvers have nipples sized for #10 caps. The #10 caps are smaller than the #11's which are standard for most percussion muzzle loading rifles. However, some cap and balls will like the #11's - my two Pietta 1860 Sheriff's models are some like that. The nipples are just a wee bit too big for the #10's. Replacement niples are available if you want a different size.

The Pyrodex P that you have will give good serice - I like it because it burns a bit cleaner than black. You can shoot .451" balls from your 1858 with no troubles - but the .454" balls will give better accuracy. I like to use about 30 grains of powder with an ox-yoke wonder wad over the powder and the ball pressed firmly down over that - it is important to seat the balls down onto the charge firmly - no air space left.

You can also load your 1858 with conicals - with the cylinder in-place.

http://www.grafs.com has Hornady round-balls in stock - they were out of .454"'s yesterday but had .451" balls. Look under muzzle loader menu item.

The other nice thing about the 1858 design is that you can very easily replace the cylinder with a cartridge firing cylinder - and be able to shoot mild 45 Colt loads out of it. The design makes loading/unloading very simple and easy. The topless models are much more cumbersom as you have to drift out the cross-piece to break them down and get at the cylinder.

[davepool]

Thanks OSOk, that's good to know about the nipple sizing/replacement

I saw an interesting tool for loading the cylinder out of the frame on Cabelas website, looks pretty convenient for $25.00, if i can find an extra cylinder cheap

[Richard Simmons]

Was thinking about that loader Cabela has myself but was also looking at something like this which is supposed to be better though more expensive.


http://www.blackdawgecartridge.com/c...yl_loader.html


http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/

[alismith]

Dont forget the crisco!

My dad used to fill up a chew tin with it. You'll want to fill up the front of the cyllinders after you get the balls seated.

Also, if my memory serves me right, bring another gun to shoot with you because the revolver will get pretty gummed up after you run a few cyllinders through it. I think it was around 5 or 6.

I only use Crisco if I'm going to be shooting right away. It tends to melt and leak out when it's put in a holster.

If I'm going to be shooting for a while, I, usually, carry a jug of water (or BP cleaning solvent) and some cleaning patches so I can give the gun a quick bath and dry it out and keep on shooting. But, a second gun is a good idea, too.

No matter how you do it, it's fun.

Oh yeah, check out Dixie Gunworks and try to get a round ball, or bullet, mold. It's a lot cheaper to make your own round balls/bullets. Dixie, also, has round balls, as well as does Cabellas (on their internet site).

There's tons of accoutrements at Dixie and Cabellas. None of the stores around here have anything related to BP. I have to get all my stuff online.

[Schuetzenman]

I'm late to the tread but a no. 11 cap is bigger than a no. 10. I've even seen 12's long ago. What you need depends on the size of the revolver's nipples. Pyrodex is by volume, not weight. It says it on the back label to use only volume measures. Pyrodex is lower density and if you use a scale to come up with the load you will vastly over load the weapon. CCI caps would probably be your best bet, Pyrodex is hard to ignite and the CCI's are very hot. Wear eye protection, flying cap bits are not good for the eyes.

I'd say for plinking 15 grs. to 20 grs. would do nicely. Pyrodex is like corrosive primed surplus ammo, it has percholrates in it. You must clean very well or even your stainless revolver will rust. I'm sure it's been mentioned, (not reading every post in the thread) the easiest way to clean one of these weapons is to take it apart and scrub it in hot soapy water. Rince with very hot water and the hot steel will evaporate the moisture well. Hose down with WD40 or another water displacing oil and store for the next outing.

On ball size, you want the ball to shave a small ring of lead off the ball, this assures a good tight fit and seal over the powder. I saw that crisco was mentioned as a lube over the balls to prevent chain fires, high temperature grease could also be used. You don't want something that will turn to liquid if the weapon is in sunlight or once it gets hot from shooting it a lot.

[ROCK ME AMADEUS]

i like that carbine.

been eyeing one up for years with the shorter barrel .

[davepool]

Was thinking about that loader Cabela has myself but was also looking at something like this which is supposed to be better though more expensive.


http://www.blackdawgecartridge.com/c...yl_loader.html
http://www.powderinc.com/catalog/

After a lot of searching, i decided to buy the cylinder loader from them (thanks for the link), should ship out tommorrow and be here in a week.

Got two extra cylinders on order, haven't gotten notice on when they will ship.

[O.S.O.K.]

Range report?

[davepool]

Range report?

I finally got a chance to hit the range yesterday and shoot my 1858 and the Ruger old army i bought ( great timing on the question )

I was using Pyrodex P, didn't get a chance to try the Triple 7, with remington #10 caps. Started with 20 grains and moved up 5 grains at a time until i got to 30 for the 1858 and 35 on the ruger. Used speer .454 in the 1858 and hornady .457 in the ruger with an Ox Yoke wonder wad over the powder and a Ox Yoke wonder seal over the ball. I was pretty impressed with the accuracy of both pistols from a hand rest. Had both of them shooting 6 shot groups under 3'' at 25 yards, and one group with the ruger was a big ragged hole with one ball high and left but still within a 3'' circle. I got a lot of experimenting to do, i want to see what they will do out to 50 yards if my old eyes don't fail me.

I am absolutely hooked, i haven't been this jazzed about shooting since i got my first .22 50 years ago.

I've got 3 lbs of Swiss black powder coming from Grafs and 1 lb of their own powder, as well as 200 rounds each of lead ball. I picked up some CCI #10s and some #11 magnum caps today, the diameter looks pretty close, the magnums just look a little longer.

I'm looking at picking up a blued traditions 1858, $295 at sportsmans warehouse, and am bidding on a nice blued ruger on gunbroker. I've also been researching kit pistols, pedersoli makes a nice .50 caliber muzzleloader kit.


Did i mention that i REALLY like to shoot these guns I took the G29 i carry thinking i would get in a little practice, but all i wanted to do was go home and clean up the cap guns. I used some spray stuff thompson center makes for BP guns that just melted away the crud, not as tough to clean as i thought they would be