BP revolver for SHTF: opinions?

[Sergi762]

Need your opinions on an idea I ran across: A few months ago there seemed to be this big hoopla over black powder arms for SHTF scenarios( not here but elsewhere.. if i had more sleep I'd recall the name) and the thought occurred to me: minus sourcing caps would one of those cap & ball BP wheel guns actually be viable for long term SHTF? I dunno if this idea has been looked into here but what do you good folks think about it? one of those 44 caliber Uberti or similar makes( I still can't find spare cylinders all that well but I digress) if more info was needed. Opinions, remarks and suggestions greatly appreciated. Good night and good groups!

[l921428x]

keep your powder dry!

[Schuetzenman]

Well yes and no for SHTF. The Remington New Model Army types are the strongest of the old BP revolvers as they have an O frame.

Image borrowed from Wiki. I've owned one made by Lyman but sold it a long time ago. Wish I hadn't. Anyway, Percussion Caps would be a problem to come up with, you would be good as long as you had Caps. Once you run out you're done. Black Powder would be another issue, you can't substitute even a little smokeless powder or risk turning it into a hand grenade. You might be able to compound your on BP but you'd need; sulfur, potassium nitrate and charcoal. Ratios of; 15%, 75% and 10% in the order of ingredients listed. One might even be able to adapt match heads as a powder but frankly in SHTF matches will be valuable for starting fires, very valuable.

Spare cylinders, sure if you're planning on having a firefight with one. Otherwise best to keep it in a "Backup" role, last ditch weapon. Taking the SHTF and Blackpowder weapon thing under consideration I would opine that a Flintlock rifle would be something to have on hand for hunting with. The flintlock eliminates the need for Caps to set it off. Flints usually last a long time, can be resharpened and you can find and knap your own flint rock. Native American's were doing it, flint knapping long before there were firearms that needed them. Having a lot of experience with muzzle loading rifles I would say you don't need a huge long barreled rifle or musket. 24" would be long enough to offer Deer killing power at close range, 75 yards or less.

[Helen Keller]

I'd go with the Remington as well.
having an 1860 and walker models too I would opt for the remington just cause it's more user friendly and you can carry all 6 loaded with it safely.



practice is the key though.


IMHO , they would be my last ditch weaps along with my 61' springfield musket. Unless Theres something out there I really need to destroy then the springfields going to work.



when it comes to caps, keep in mind. alot of these toy cap guns ,the caps they use pack more than enough punch to set off a BP charge ( thank maynard for that)

[stinker]

Flint blunderbuss solves pretty much every problem you can toss up. Ammo is anything you can fit in the barrel(nuts, nail, bolts, fist full of pebbles, etc), powder i'm betting could be made to work with a lot of things other than BP if it doesn't burn too fast(correct me if i'm wrong), no caps needed and if you ever do find occasion to set it off someone on the business end is going to think SHTF twice.

[FunkyPertwee]

Flint blunderbuss solves pretty much every problem you can toss up. Ammo is anything you can fit in the barrel(nuts, nail, bolts, fist full of pebbles, etc), powder i'm betting could be made to work with a lot of things other than BP if it doesn't burn too fast(correct me if i'm wrong), no caps needed and if you ever do find occasion to set it off someone on the business end is going to think SHTF twice.

This is one from the 1600's that was converted to use caps in the 19'th century.

[cevulirn]

I think that I would use a black powder (assuming the possession of one in SHTF, among other weapons) as my first weapon for my least important tasks... Thus saving precious ammo for more important tasks.

[Schuetzenman]

when it comes to caps, keep in mind. alot of these toy cap guns ,the caps they use pack more than enough punch to set off a BP charge ( thank maynard for that)

That should be true ... but .... I can't remember the last time I saw a roll of caps or a cap gun in a toy store. Forster Industries use to make a thing called Tap-O-Cap that used aluminum beverage cans and caps to make your own Percussion Caps. However, they have discontinued making them and nobody else does. So even if you can find caps, no way to make a cap cup is available. A person would need to figure out how to make a device to punch out and fold into a proper sized cup to hold the cap gun cap.

[Helen Keller]

the cheapo dollar stores.
The typical 8 shot revovler cap gun cap ring is about the same size as an #11 cap and very very loud.

[Sergi762]

That should be true ... but .... I can't remember the last time I saw a roll of caps or a cap gun in a toy store. Forster Industries use to make a thing called Tap-O-Cap that used aluminum beverage cans and caps to make your own Percussion Caps. However, they have discontinued making them and nobody else does. So even if you can find caps, no way to make a cap cup is available. A person would need to figure out how to make a device to punch out and fold into a proper sized cup to hold the cap gun cap.

Designing it isn't very difficult assuming you can find a machine shop to make the parts IF you know a few key things. The problem is without knowing what diameter( and how thick if using brass or copper sheet) to make the first disk or the proper angle to make the throat of the outer cup former to prevent the aluminum( or copper, if that's being used) from being sheared, it wold fail too much. Drawing a bit of sheet into a cup isn't too hard but the devil's in the details.

[Schuetzenman]

The Devil is in the Details. If somebody had one of the old Tap-0-Caps they could make a set of drawings up and post them with a description of the materials. I used to see the adds for it in Muzzle Blasts Magazine, wish now I had bought one long ago. I didn't because Percussion caps were cheap, $15 / 1000 for RWS German made, the best.

[alismith]

The Devil is in the Details. If somebody had one of the old Tap-0-Caps they could make a set of drawings up and post them with a description of the materials. I used to see the adds for it in Muzzle Blasts Magazine, wish now I had bought one long ago. I didn't because Percussion caps were cheap, $15 / 1000 for RWS German made, the best.

I have one of those Tap-O-Caps that I bought through Dixie when they were available. I tried it out a few times and it worked pretty well. IIRC the "puncher" is just a modified hand-held hole punch. I'll see if I can find it and post some pics and dimensions.

As far as caps go, like Helen Keller says, Dollar General is where I've found mine. They have both the plastic 8-shot cap rings and the paper roll caps, too. I've been stocking up on those lately.

As far a making BP goes, try to find an old Foxfire book (not sure which volume). They tell how the hills people make their powder from scratch. The charcoal and saltpeter are pretty easy to make.

[cevulirn]

As far a making BP goes, try to find an old Foxfire book (not sure which volume). They tell how the hills people make their powder from scratch. The charcoal and saltpeter are pretty easy to make.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TM_31-2...ition_Handbook

[O.S.O.K.]

The way I look at it, if you can prep with a cap and ball revolver, you can prep with any gun.

Cap and ball revolvers are less expensive... but you can buy a good gun for the same price as a cap and ball - like a Yugo M57 Tok for example.

If there's some reason that you can't have a regular pistol or revolver, and can have a cap and ball, well then yes, it would be a formidable defensive weapon and a viable long-term shtf gun. You can make your own black powder, cast your own balls and the caps can also be hand made. However, think about scrounging up sulfure, potasium nitrate.... fulmate for the caps.

I too favor the Remington repros- I've got two of them - I'd go with the 5 1/2" barreled model if I could only have one - much easier to conceal and lighter. A 45 caliber ball with energy equivalent to a 38 special. The easy take down makes for quicker reloads with a spare loaded cylinder or two... and very easy for cleaning. They are also stronger than the open tops.

For really long-term shtf firearm solution, I suggest a .22LR Revolver and a lot of ammo - of course, it's hard to find .22LR ammo right now!

[Sergi762]

I seem to remember looking at the M57 as a low cost option. What killed it was a lack of available hollow points & the non-existent ballistics information available on them. Having grown up handling a Russian Tok I was familiar with the pistol and I was fairly accurate with it, hence the hard look at the M57 as an option, But I digress, The big thing on the BP idea was the assuming that brass cased ammunition was unavailable or too scarce. Sourcing chemicals is something familiar so that wasn't a big turnoff.

EDIT: instead of another post I will remark that yes a 9mm version is made. there are plenty of options for 9mm shooters and while I can see re-inactors liking the 9mm, I have since looked elsewhere for a serviceable sidearm.

[FunkyPertwee]

I seem to remember looking at the M57 as a low cost option. What killed it was a lack of available hollow points & the non-existent ballistics information available on them. Having grown up handling a Russian Tok I was familiar with the pistol and I was fairly accurate with it, hence the hard look at the M57 as an option, But I digress, The big thing on the BP idea was the assuming that brass cased ammunition was unavailable or too scarce. Sourcing chemicals is something familiar so that wasn't a big turnoff.

They come in 9mm now.

[Schuetzenman]

Yes the Yugo M57 does come in 9 mm Luger chambering now, I've seen them on Aim Surplus's web site.

[Hivernant]

Consider the Ruger Old Army pistol in .44 caliber.

[Ruskiegunlover]

I do not see how a BP revolver is anything less than a suicide gun in shtf. SLOW to reload, hard to find ammo for (harder than most firearms in shtf). If the gun gets wet you are likely screwed. I'd keep my 1860 colt loaded for suicide in the event I was overrun or defeated in an engagement before I thought about using it for real. Terrible idea in my mind.

[Helen Keller]

Like I stated , Last Ditch.
You're OUT of everything else.


I would use the black powder for something far more interesting in an event like that.