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Thread: Starting AR Pistol Project

  1. #1
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Cool Starting AR Pistol Project


    Just ordered this barrel from Brownell's tonight and a bit of other stuff.
    Barrel Weight: 1.445 lbs.
    Cartridge: 5.56 mm NATO
    Contour: Medium
    Finish: Nitride
    Length: 10-1/2
    Twist: 1-7

    Additionally the order contained a BCM complete flat top M4 feed cuts, etc. upper receiver and the Sig pistol brace thing. Last major item ordered a Double Star AR15 bolt carrier group.


    I already have Phase 5 Tactical pistol buffer kit, lower receiver, lower receiver kit.

    Stuff I still need is a 7" carbine gas tube, would you believe Brownell's doesn't have them as a single item only buried in $45 buck upper kits. Going to also need a FF handguard set. I really want either the Samson Evolution or the Midwest Industries GEN II SS SERIES HANDGUARD. Hey, all it takes is money. In the short term I may rob an Olympic Light rail FF handguard off my .22 LR upper that I don't shoot because I can't replace the ammo. A topic for another conversation.

  2. #2
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Nice!

    I never thought I'd see you go short-barrel AR-15. I would like to build something similar except I'll probably snag a PSA 10.5" upper whenever I have the cash and they are available next. I'm happy with a non-floated handguard on a close quarters weapon though.
    I'd like to do this Arm Brace thing on an AR as well as my Draco and hopefully future PAP M-92.
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  3. #3
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyPertwee View Post
    Nice!

    I never thought I'd see you go short-barrel AR-15. I would like to build something similar except I'll probably snag a PSA 10.5" upper whenever I have the cash and they are available next. I'm happy with a non-floated handguard on a close quarters weapon though.
    I'd like to do this Arm Brace thing on an AR as well as my Draco and hopefully future PAP M-92.
    Yeah, I thought about non free floated as well, after all as you point out this is for close range work. Oddly though there's less parts in a FF handguard system than the conventional version. I don't need the delta ring, spring or barrel nut retainer washer. Don't have a front cap plate either. The handguards I'm looking at fix to a stock barrel nut and have modular rails you add on where you want them. So no stock fixed quad rail thing. I ordered a low profile gas block that can fit under those type guards so I could do a Specter length look covering up the gas block with the handguards. I also plan to get the AAC 18 tooth Blackout flash hider as that is what my AAC can takes for quick mount. That will suck up another $95. I got a 10% off discount code in an email today, the primary thing that jogged me off dead center on this project. All in all I saved about $62 bucks on the order tonight.

    Final projected cost probably right at $925 with zero sights. I'll probably throw an Eotech 512 up on it that is sitting on that .22 LR upper in the vault for the short term. If I got what I'd really like I'd be putting an Aimpoint T1 or H1 up on it.

    Ran some numbers on part weight totals. Looks like it should finish up at about 5 lbs. with the Eotech it. Those little Aimpoints are only about 4 ozs. the Eotech is 12.
    Last edited by Schuetzenman; 05-03-2014 at 09:21 AM.

  4. #4
    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    Interesting flame-thrower you building there!

  5. #5
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    Yeah, I thought about non free floated as well, after all as you point out this is for close range work. Oddly though there's less parts in a FF handguard system than the conventional version. I don't need the delta ring, spring or barrel nut retainer washer. Don't have a front cap plate either. The handguards I'm looking out fix to a stock barrel nut and have modular rails you add on where you want them. So no stock fixed quad rail thing. I ordered a low profile gas block that can fit under those type guards so I could do a Specter length look covering up the handguards. I also plan to get the AAC 18 tooth Blackout flash hider as that is what my AAC can takes for quick mount. That will suck up another $95. I got a 10% off discount code in an email today, the primary thing that jogged me off dead center on this project. All in all I saved about $62 bucks on the order tonight.

    Final projected cost probably right at $925 with zero sights. I'll probably throw an Eotech 512 up on it that is sitting on that .22 LR upper in the vault in the short term. If I got what I'd really like I'd be putting an Aimpoint T1 or H1 up on it.

    Ran some numbers on part weight totals. Looks like it should finish up at about 5 lbs. with the Eotech it. Those little Aimpoints are only about 4 ozs. the Eotech is 12.
    I love the setup you describe and wish I could do the same. In order to remain on a budget I'd probably wait for a complete PSA upper with standard handguard (would upgrade to magpul) at around $400, and end up with an optic like a Vortex SPARC, and CNC warrior phantom flash hider. I love my Aimpoint but I can't afford one on every gun.

    I'd really prefer your proposed setup though. At least as far as the FF handguard and Aimpoint go.
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

  6. #6
    Senior Member TEN-32's Avatar

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    Thats an awesome project. I'm looking forward to reading about your progress. I still don't trust ATF on the Sig brace for pistols. Although Sig has the corporate muscle to fight any reversal of the opinion. I understand there is current litigation with ATF over a flash hider they designed.
    Face your fear, accept your war.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Adog's Avatar

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    Cool project. It should look nice and evil when it's done.
    I've got a CAR gas tube in my parts box, not sure how long it is or if you could use it, but I'll dig it out if you're interested.

  8. #8
    Senior Member L1A1Rocker's Avatar

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    Very cool! I'm starting to warm to the Sig brace now that it's "approved" for use on a pistol. Any plans to do SBR paperwork on it?
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  9. #9
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adog View Post
    Cool project. It should look nice and evil when it's done.
    I've got a CAR gas tube in my parts box, not sure how long it is or if you could use it, but I'll dig it out if you're interested.
    Along those lines of a 7" gas system gas tube (Carbine Length std.) I have a lightly used 9" mid length gas tube that I took off a Middy that now has an Osprey piston system on it. Interested in a swap Adog, or anyone else for that matter? PM me and we can has out details.

  10. #10
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by L1A1Rocker View Post
    Very cool! I'm starting to warm to the Sig brace now that it's "approved" for use on a pistol. Any plans to do SBR paperwork on it?
    Honestly if I was going to go SBR I'd do that from the get go and just toss a T-6 car stock on it. The Sig brace is a lot more expensive than 90% of the stock and buffer tube systems out there. The biggest reason is the wait period. I don't want to be waiting on the stamp a year from now. I want to get out and do some shooting this year. And get this, the local DNR run range that I frequent doesn't allow full autos or SBR class weapons. We can use our suppressors but no other NFA class weapons. Makes no sense at all considering such items are 100% legal here in GA. So the Pistol class build pisses on their Elmer Fuddism policy.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Adog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    Along those lines of a 7" gas system gas tube (Carbine Length std.) I have a lightly used 9" mid length gas tube that I took off a Middy that now has an Osprey piston system on it. Interested in a swap Adog, or anyone else for that matter? PM me and we can has out details.
    The tube I have measures 9 3/4", I guess that is not what you are looking for...sorry bout that.

  12. #12
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEN-32 View Post
    Thats an awesome project. I'm looking forward to reading about your progress. I still don't trust ATF on the Sig brace for pistols. Although Sig has the corporate muscle to fight any reversal of the opinion. I understand there is current litigation with ATF over a flash hider they designed.
    And I'm no fan of BATFE either. In the case you speak of I understand that flash hider is actually the core for a suppressor. That is supposed to be the selling feature about it. Works as a flash hider as installed. Do your paperwork to register a suppressor tube and then screw it on to cover the flash hider making it into a suppressor. BATFE is of course taking the attitude that everyone that will buy the weapon will do an off the books engineering of a tube and end cap to make clandestine suppressors out of the flash hider. Once again them pulling out their one charge fits all "Constructive Intent" charge.
    Last edited by Schuetzenman; 05-03-2014 at 05:44 PM.

  13. #13
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adog View Post
    The tube I have measures 9 3/4", I guess that is not what you are looking for...sorry bout that.
    Actually that probably is a carbine tube if I'm not mistaken. The middy tube I have is 11.5 ish in length. I know the Carbine system is 7" and the Mid Length Gas system is 9". So the difference between your tube and mine is about that 2" difference.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Adog's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    Actually that probably is a carbine tube if I'm not mistaken. The middy tube I have is 11.5 ish in length. I know the Carbine system is 7" and the Mid Length Gas system is 9". So the difference between your tube and mine is about that 2" difference.
    I thought that might be the case, I was pretty sure it was a CAR tube. 7" must be the measurement from the rear of the gas block to the front of the reciever, not the over all length of the tube.
    I'll pm you tomorrow to work out a deal.

  15. #15
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adog View Post
    I thought that might be the case, I was pretty sure it was a CAR tube. 7" must be the measurement from the rear of the gas block to the front of the reciever, not the over all length of the tube.
    I'll pm you tomorrow to work out a deal.
    Thanks!

  16. #16
    Senior Member TEN-32's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schuetzenman View Post
    And I'm no fan of BATFE either. In the case you speak of I understand that flash hider is actually the core for a suppressor. That is supposed to be the selling feature about it. Works as a flash hider as installed. Do you paperwork to register a suppressor tube and then screw it on to cover the flash hider making it into a suppressor. BATFE is of course taking the attitude that everyone that will buy the weapon will do an off the books engineering of a tube and end cap to make clandestine suppressors out of the flash hider. Once again them pulling out their one charge fits all "Constructive Intent" charge.
    If you do the Sig brace, I would recommend no modifications to it of any kind. Leave it exactly as Sig made it. I may be overly paranoid but why tempt them.
    Face your fear, accept your war.

  17. #17
    Forum Administrator Schuetzenman's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEN-32 View Post
    If you do the Sig brace, I would recommend no modifications to it of any kind. Leave it exactly as Sig made it. I may be overly paranoid but why tempt them.
    That is totally my intention, leave it 100% stock. I was sold on the idea after seeing several AR pistols sporting these things. Those weapons had that Magpul AFG1 angled foregrip things on them. They ahem, handled and pointed really nice. Made me want one.

  18. #18
    Senior Member TEN-32's Avatar

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    I'm looking forward to pics of your build. Sounds like a cool project.
    Face your fear, accept your war.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Helen Keller's Avatar

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    Those weapons had that Magpul AFG1 angled foregrip things on them. They ahem, handled and pointed really nice. Made me want one.

    the AFG grips are legit, they're not "vertical" so they dont count.
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  20. #20
    Contributor 02/2014 FunkyPertwee's Avatar

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    Thank God for non-stock stocks and non-grip grips.

    Now you can have a stock and grip without having to pay for a stock and a grip.
    "I'm fucking furious, I'm violently angry, and I like it. If you don't know what that feels like then I feel bad for you"

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