SHTF meds and ?s of current legality.

[arcangel]

My mom, Girl friend, and her mom are diabetic. If SHTF insulin is a MUST have for them and I think would be gone in less than a heartbeat in the chaos of it all. I think if it came down to it I'd do some stupid shit to get insulin in a SHTF world, and Im pretty sure I would only be obligated to get it for my mom. I've been doing a lot of thinking over this topic and it would be hard to leave my GF and her family for my own but thats just how it is. The liquid insulin has to be in the fridge and I think the shelf life is only 3-4 months. The pills last longer but are not as potent.

[Mark Ducati]

Insulin? Did you read the book "1 second after"? Kind of a Jericho story....

The guy's daughter in the book is a diabetic... so he goes to the pharmacy to get insulin, he found that the pharmacy only had 6 vials.

I asked my local pharmacist about their insulin supply... they said they usually keep about 20 vials on hand as they get shipments every other day... but WHEN the SHTF, those supply trucks wont be coming (same as in the book)

IF one of my children/wife were diabetic and depended upon Insulin, I would be seeing TWO (maybe 3) different doctors to get an Rx for Insulin... put the one Rx on insurance (if you have it)... pay for the other two prescriptions out of pocket... AND get the 2 or 3 monthly scripts for Insulin at different pharmacies.

I say all of this, IF you can afford it... I have a $30 co-pay for generic prescriptions ($60 for brand name).... I have absolutely no idea how much a vial of Insulin costs if you had to pay for it out of pocket.

I also don't know how good the shelf life of insulin is if kept refrigerated... a year? Six months? Ideally, I'd like a year's supply of insulin for each family member that was dependent upon it.

Going between 2-3 different doctors, keep track of exp. dates as to when you got the insulin would take some important organizational skills.

I also think that if you told each doctor (don't tell them about the other doctor(s) )... tell them that you'd like an extra vial or two of Insulin for SHTF, I don't think they'd have a problem with giving you an extra Rx to pay for out of pocket to take to a different pharmacy (Its not like you're asking for pain medication or something addictive)...

Same goes for High Blood Pressure medicine, or any other meds that you medically need to keep you healthy enough to live.

Its amazing how much modern medicine has enabled us to live... there's a reason why the average life expectancy 400 years ago was only 40-50 years of age! Some untreated disease or illness killed you first! IF the SHTF goes on for a decade or longer, expect to see plagues and epidemics occuring!

[arcangel]

Looking at a bottle of Lantus right now, 100 units/mL. The Exp date 07/2011 and the prescipt was filled 1/30/10. Store 36-40 degrees, cant freeze it, if frozen throw out. And use within 28 days after opening. Each mL contains 100IU (3.6378mg) insulin glargine, 30mcg zinc, 2.7mg m-cresol, 20mg glycerol 85%, 20 mcg polysorbate, and water for injection. And cannot be mixed with other insulins. Each bottle runs $80-90 without insurance. Neither of us have insurance. My GF's mom gives it to her, she understands its hard.

[Mark Ducati]

Arc... so basically each Rx is a $100 bucks a month...

if you try to double up, BCBS pays for one and you'd be paying $1200 a year for a second "back up" Rx "just in case"...

Sorry to hear it costs so much... I'd try to keep maybe 3-4 extra vials if you could and rotate them out... even then, that's still another $300-400 but only insurance for a few months IF something happened.

Truth is, IF/WHEN the SHTF, a lot of people are going to suffer and die when their meds run out.

[arcangel]

We havent had to buy any insulin yet, her mom gives it to her. Her mom has kickass insurance, we have usually 2 bottles, and 2-4 pens that hold 100 units. She takes her insulin every few days, so that stretches it a bit. But my mom has no insurance and no job and is pretty much fucked into paying the $100 when she needs it, she also takes hers everyday.

[Mark Ducati]

We're getting off topic here a bit Arc... but your family situation is EXACTLY what I would rather my tax dollars go to... to help people who medically need life sustaining drugs live a normal life.... NOT my tax dollars going towards welfare for those that don't want to work.

[Moebrown20]

At one time, I tried to learn how to make insulin.

Very tough.
Human insulin is grown in the lab with bacteria or yeast.
A DNA synthesizer, centrifuge & a x-ray machine is required as well.


It's much easier to make Penicillin.

[arcangel]

Is making home made meds illegal? Having a lab at home I think would piss the Feds off, and if cought I think they would try to pin meth lab or illegal drugs lab on those who try. Id like to see our tax dollars spent that way too. Too many people in our own country are hurting pretty bad and cant get the help they need. While people who dont work and dont have the desire to, get everything handed to them. I see a lot of that around this area. I heard Penicillin is poisionous after it expires, any truth to that?

[Moebrown20]

Is making home made meds illegal? Having a lab at home I think would piss the Feds off, and if cought I think they would try to pin meth lab or illegal drugs lab on those who try. Id like to see our tax dollars spent that way too. Too many people in our own country are hurting pretty bad and cant get the help they need. While people who dont work and dont have the desire to, get everything handed to them. I see a lot of that around this area. I heard Penicillin is poisionous after it expires, any truth to that?

Yes, making Pain meds at home is a no, no.

Penicillin is made from Penicillium fungi and is given a shelf life of 2 years by the fda.
They say that's the period during which the potency of the medication drops a certain amount -- often 10 percent.
Most are given a shelf life assuming that they will be stored in a 70+ degree(with high humidity) medicine cabinet.

Amoxicillin (suspension), Must be kept in the fridge and shelf life is between 16-21 days, but thats the liquid version.
Tetracycline, liquid antibiotics, oil capsules, etc will be harmful after they expire. Pills normally just lose their effectiveness.

[Mark Ducati]

Did you know you could make aspiring from the inner bark of the Willow Tree?

Not actually asprin, but its still a salicylate, peel off the bark from the branches and steep in hot water for a half hour (2tsp per 8oz water).

Pain Meds? In a SHTF, all you have to do is go to your cupboard and pull out the poppy seeds from your spice rack, go an plant them in a 1/4" of dirt... not all, but some WILL grow! The opium is found in the heads below the flower. You have to wait until it flowers and the crown of green leaves beneath the flower sag... that's when the latex sap is in the pod walls. Its not illegal to grow poppies, only illegal to harvest the opium... if the feds came around and found all the pods in your garden sliced with a razor to release the sap, then you'd be SOL. Some folks save the pods whole and dry to get the seeds for planting next year... then they crush the pods in their blender/grinder and make tea out of it (lemon juice helps release the alkaloids).... Aint knowledge great?

God gave us all the plants on the earth... and He said to partake of every seed bearing plant, that they were ours for the taking... with that said, the potential for abuse of anything doesn't need to be stated... God gave us these plants for medicinal purposes, when man perverts their use, well that's where the sin is... I wonder if a pot grower (for personal use) could claim that he was just exercising his freedom of religion and worshiping God as he was told to? Hahaha... no, I don't smoke pot, someone else try this.

[medic_krebs]

In SHTF, I think Marijuana would be your best bet for painkilling...

[arcangel]

Knowledge is KING! Didnt know that about the willow tree bark, good to know. Opium, thats some scary stuff man, saw what those heavy drugs did to my cousin, and friends. Pot would be a good med in shtf, my neighbors smoke enough of it, so there's a supply in a shtf world. I dont drink, or do any of that anymore.

[HDR]

In SHTF, I think Marijuana would be your best bet for painkilling...

The dinks used it and other thing.

[Cypher]

Mark,
Do you know what types of anti biotics are the best for storage and how long they will last in storage? I'm allergic to penicillin and arithomiasen (SP?). But I have thought about getting some type of anti-biotic for storage. Nothing like dying from a sinus infection.

[ubersoldate]

When you're out in the sticks guys, and SHTF, remember that pain is just weakness coming through the skin. Anyway, I suppose if getting your hands on these particular pain killers you mentioned is too difficult, you could always start looking into herbs. They can be very powerful if you find the right ones, and the best part, is most herbs are not illegal. The problem I suppose would be taking the raw materials and getting what you need out of them. This would probably take a good bit of alchemical skill, though I've never tried it. If all else fails, bring a bottle of whiskey.

This is a large misconception to alot of people.
The reality is, very rarely are any herbs that are found wild that would be usefull in a emergency.

Now collecting them far before, and stockpiling, then they are awesome and better than some of the man made versions, but finding something in the woods, while sick or injured, is not as easy as it sounds.
There is also vet meds that are easier to get your hands on, and Mexican pharms that will doll out whatever you want legally.
As mark posted one can make their own for a rainy day.
Just the ability to find natural stuff in the future is another smart point...
Do the reading, do the homework.
Some will spend tens of thousands of dollars on weapons and ammo and other survival tools, but will scoff at dropping a grand on medical supplies.


Best bet is to stockpile before hand whatever you need, may they be stuff grown naturally, to stuff from the pharmacist.

I built up a good batch by being sneaky.
when I was perscribed antibiotics and paint pills for wisdom teeth, I went in, purchased them, then went home, called the dentist and said that I had accidentally misplaced the pharmacy bag, ( I said I left it on my car while loading grocerys and lost it ) He sent over another second script right then and there.

Instantly I ended up with a nice batch meds needed in a bad situation sitting in my storage.
The whiskey comment was good as well, as thats what was used in the old west for hundreds of years.
Just stockpiling all types of meds is smart, as I know the blow hards with zero backround on here will tell you, nothing matters in a SHTF more than an AK and 500 rounds, but meds will be worth more than money or guns to some a parent with a sick child and no meds.

My friends over at calvary arms, have made a few different medical packs that can be carried, and are the real deal. Great stuff to have off hand or in a vehicle.
I bought this one. ( i did get it at less than half their retail price as I know a guy or two there )
http://www.cavalrymanufacturing.com/medical/AMTC.html
Here is their list, check em out!
http://www.cavalrymanufacturing.com/...l/medical.html

Outside of the meds, there are a few really good books out there on emergency medical technics, minor surgery and setting bones. The one I have has pics of different procedures and being able to add lib common utensiles for emergency medical use.
Bad thing is you cant practice these things but the fact that having the book gives you a little bit of a jump if something happens in the bush.
http://beprepared.com/category.asp?c...cd2=1292007947
A few really good books on here, and a search on the net would give you a handfull of ideas for further reading.

Health is survival, period, it is just as important if not more than arming oneself to the teeth imo.
If you have your health, your options are endless.

[HDR]

Truth is, IF/WHEN the SHTF, a lot of people are going to suffer and die when their meds run out.

Subtract how long you plan on living from your age. Ignoring shelf life, convert years into days and divide by the dosage required. At the end of the day the reality is do the math....

For example, if someone wants to live for 20 years and take a baby aspirin everyday; that would be 7.300 aspirins.

[Cypher]

Subtract how long you plan on living from your age. Ignoring shelf life, convert years into days and divide by the dosage required. At the end of the day the reality is do the math....

For example, if someone wants to live for 20 years and take a baby aspirin everyday; that would be 7.300 aspirins.

That's probably the hardest thing to deal with, I know a few people that will seriously be in trouble if they can't get medicine refilled. The sad thing is some things can be really difficult to obtain for emergency storage

[Schuetzenman]

Did you know you could make aspiring from the inner bark of the Willow Tree?

Not actually asprin, but its still a salicylate, peel off the bark from the branches and steep in hot water for a half hour (2tsp per 8oz water).

.

Didn't know about the Willow tree either but I did know about the Aspen tree. Bark of the Aspen tree soaked at temperature to make a hot tea will leach aspirin substance out, hence the name of Aspirin. Borrowed from Wiki

Aspens and other members of the Populus genus contain salicylates, compounds related to aspirin. Leaves and leaf buds of aspens have been used to treat burns, irritations, aches, and swollen joints. Bitter herbal tea from bark and leaves has been used to treat mild urinary tract inflammations. The Ojibwe used the inner bark of the trunk as a poultice, and the Cree ate the inner bark in the spring as a mild purgative.[8]

[MOP]

Learned a lot of new things here.

I'm going to suggest a very good book on 'Herbal Medicine' the title is

Herbs~a visual guide~ by Lesley Bremness

Armed with these basic info, we're going to be able to deal

with Snake Oil Salesman in a post-SHTF world.

As to the control of pain (in a SHTF) is there anything better than a bottle of good booze ?

[recon]

Great stuff people! Thanks MOP for your input also. Is this the one?
http://productsearch.barnesandnoble....&pos=-1&ugrp=1