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Thread: Musings of an old man....

  1. #41
    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    I lost a friend at Kent State, that incident that proved that an armed military would fire on an unarmed populous. Yes throwing rocks would piss off a uniformed person, but they did fire on unarmed people.

    Advance to today, if that did happen again, those in uniform who did the shooting would find a second line of civilians that were armed to the teeth, and a red mist would soon surround them.

  2. #42
    Administrator Krupski's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    How can atheist, who believe the universe was created by a big bang out of nothing, seriously think they are smarter than people who believe God created the universe out of nothing?

    How does the big bang connect with "atheism"?

    I believe in God. I also think (don't know of course) that all God did was create hydrogen, then sat back and watched.

    The hydrogen under it's own gravity, collected into balls, collected more, collapsed, heated and finally nuclear fusion began. Those stars ran out of fuel, went nova and created the rest of the elements. Some of those elements combined at random and one day formed a living, self replicating lifeform. Then the lifeform evolved into others and finally poof here we are, along with countless trillions of "intelligent" self-aware life forms throughout the universe.

    And, since we turned out exactly as God had intended, we are "made in His image" (meaning made to match His design).

    My oldest son thinks this is a lot of hilarious nonsense. I also explained it to the pastor of our church and he thought very highly of the idea.

    So, what do you think? Is the "hydrogen God" theory plausible, or nuts?
    Gentlemen may prefer Blondes, but Real Men prefer Redheads!

  3. #43
    Administrator Krupski's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    According to Einstein, gravity is a warp in the plane of space. The more massive an object is, the greater that object warps the space around it.

    A black hole has warped the space around it so much that the warp (hole) in the gravitational field around is so unbelievably deep that not even light can climb out of it.

    I don't think it is another form of something called, "X." It's the result of mass. Mass causes gravity and gravity affects objects within its field. It has no effect on anything outside of its field. Gravity, mass, and energy may be related, but I don't think they're different states of the same thing, like water is either gas, liquid, or solid.


    IF the event horizon of a black hole is the point where the escape velocity equals the speed of light, and IF Einstein was right about mass and inertia going to infinity at the speed of light, then this means anything that "falls into" the black hole stops at the event horizon and goes no further because it would take an infinite amount of energy to move the "thing" further down.

    SO... that means that a black hole must be surrounded by a zero thickness, infinite density shell of accumulated matter, all stuck at precisely the spot where the escape velocity equals the speed of light.

    And if that's the case, what is BETWEEN the singularity and the event horizon? And, if you could be inside that shell (hypothetically), would you be pulled towards the shell or towards the singularity?

    Damn my head hurts again.
    Gentlemen may prefer Blondes, but Real Men prefer Redheads!

  4. #44
    Administrator Krupski's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Simmons View Post
    Bear in mind if you are armed and or shooting at the military you are an enemy. Civilian no longer applies. At least that is likely to be their mindset.

    Sure their are lots of radios and the military can jam those frequencies. Even if they don't you have to figure out how to coordinate everyone. Not saying it can't happen just saying there are bigger issues than whether we have bump stocks.


    Hopefully, there will be no need to fire on our own troops. Obviously, they have the right to defend themselves and if civilians fired on them... well nobody could blame them for firing back.
    Gentlemen may prefer Blondes, but Real Men prefer Redheads!

  5. #45
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krupski View Post
    How does the big bang connect with "atheism"?
    The Big Bang doesn't connect with atheism. Atheism connects with religion/Christianity in how the two believe the universe was formed.
    Christians believe there was nothing, then God created the universe.
    Atheist believe there was nothing, then a Big Bang created the universe.
    They both believe the universe was created out of nothing, but they hold different "theories" as to how that nothing came into existence as the universe, i. e., somebody or nobody.

    Your theory is as plausible as any other theory. It is also as nuts as any other theory. In other words, it is just a theory like all the others.

    ETA... I'm of the opinion that the universe has always existed. Not always as we see it today. What used to be called the Steady State theory, if I recall correctly.
    Last edited by N/A; 05-07-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    The Big Bang doesn't connect with atheism. Atheism connects with religion/Christianity in how the two believe the universe was formed.
    Christians believe there was nothing, then God created the universe.
    Atheist believe there was nothing, then a Big Bang created the universe.
    They both believe the universe was created out of nothing, but they hold different "theories" as to how that nothing came into existence as the universe, i. e., somebody or nobody.

    Your theory is as plausible as any other theory. It is also as nuts as any other theory. In other words, it is just a theory like all the others.

    ETA... I'm of the opinion that the universe has always existed. Not always as we see it today. What used to be called the Steady State theory, if I recall correctly.
    How did the universe always exist without it being created? Nothing exists without someone or something building it at least as far as we know.
    Last edited by 1 Patriot-of-many; 05-07-2018 at 11:25 AM.

  7. #47
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    How did the universe always exist without it being created? Nothing exists without someone or something building it at least as far as we know.
    What was it built out of? Nothing?

    If you build a new house, it looks nothing like the original parts that went into building it. The house didn't exist before, yet the materials to build it did exist before it was built.
    The same with the universe. The universe may not have looked like it does now, but the materials in the universe existed before this present form of the universe existed.
    No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR

  8. #48
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    The Big Bang doesn't connect with atheism. Atheism connects with religion/Christianity in how the two believe the universe was formed.
    Christians believe there was nothing, then God created the universe.
    Atheist believe there was nothing, then a Big Bang created the universe.
    They both believe the universe was created out of nothing, but they hold different "theories" as to how that nothing came into existence as the universe, i. e., somebody or nobody.

    Your theory is as plausible as any other theory. It is also as nuts as any other theory. In other words, it is just a theory like all the others.

    ETA... I'm of the opinion that the universe has always existed. Not always as we see it today. What used to be called the Steady State theory, if I recall correctly.
    The universe is seen as constantly expanding outward from a certain direction. Everything is moving away from everything else. To find where the universe started, just go back into the direction everything is moving away from (hypothetically, of course).

    The universe can't be in a steady state if it is constantly expanding. It's getting larger.

    As you move in the opposite direction of outward expansion, everything gets older. If you move in the direction of its expansion, everything gets younger.

    Eventually, if you went far enough out to the edge of the universe, you'd find a great white hot wall of hydrogen (that wall is creation, itself). Once you entered that wall (hypothetically), you wouldn't be able to see anything because light is being created everywhere (we are able to see things because light is reflected off other objects). Since light is being created everywhere, nothing would be able to reflect light back, thus everything becomes invisible to us.

    So, based on this theory, if you wanted to travel back in time and see worlds form, and life begin elsewhere, you'd have to travel in the direction of the expansion. However, none of these worlds would be our own, but some of them may have similar elements to our own, and produce similar life forms.

    Maybe there are worlds where dinosaur-like animals evolved, but no asteroid wiped them out....

    Too bad we'll never be able to prove this one way or another....
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

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  9. #49
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    N/A, here you go:

    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

  10. #50
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    Thanks. That should be interesting; I'll watch it tonight if it's not too long.

    If I don't accept the Big Bang, don't expect me to accept this right off the bat. I will give it a listen tho, if I can.
    No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR

  11. #51
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    Thanks. That should be interesting; I'll watch it tonight if it's not too long.

    If I don't accept the Big Bang, don't expect me to accept this right off the bat. I will give it a listen tho, if I can.
    Not trying to convert you. Just showing you the theory most cosmologists accept about the expansion of the universe.

    It's only about 9 1/2 minutes long.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

  12. #52
    Senior Member Partisan1983's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Simmons View Post
    Bear in mind if you are armed and or shooting at the military you are an enemy. Civilian no longer applies. At least that is likely to be their mindset.

    Sure their are lots of radios and the military can jam those frequencies. Even if they don't you have to figure out how to coordinate everyone. Not saying it can't happen just saying there are bigger issues than whether we have bump stocks.
    The majority of today's military will not comply.

    My family/friends currently serving, will Never comply!

    One of my brothers told me about the party that ensued when Trump won, on Fort Campbell..he's 101ST airborne, the base command basically made it a four day holiday.
    Here's to pussy and gunpowder. One to live for, the other to die by.....Goddamn though, I do love the smell of 'em both !!!

  13. #53
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    Not trying to convert you. Just showing you the theory most cosmologists accept about the expansion of the universe.

    It's only about 9 1/2 minutes long.
    I watched it. I'll have to run it thru my mind for awhile, but right off the bat, it doesn't answer any of my questions. Will watch it again.
    No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR

  14. #54
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    I watched it. I'll have to run it thru my mind for awhile, but right off the bat, it doesn't answer any of my questions. Will watch it again.
    I was trying to show that most cosmologists believe the universe is expanding, not static. I took your post to say you believed the universe was static and unchanging.

    If your questions were about the Big Bang etc., I have another video that, sort of, provides an answer to that. It starts at about one ten billionth of the first second after the Bang. That's as far back as current physics can go. Prior to that, physics doesn't work.

    If you like, I'll post that video, but I have to go back and find where the parts dealing with it are. The whole program is an hour long, but it is fantastic.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

  15. #55
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    Naw, I don't think it is static, and using the term "steady state" was misleading, but I couldn't think of any better term to use. K
    I believe the universe has always existed, not always as it looks now. There's no telling how many forms the mass/energy of the universe has existed in.
    No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR

  16. #56
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    N/A, this might answer some of your questions about the universe always existing (again, theory based on physics):

    Check out the part starting at 5:24 (about 7 min. long) and the part starting at 48:51 (about 3 min. long).

    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

  17. #57
    Administrator Krupski's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    How did the universe always exist without it being created? Nothing exists without someone or something building it at least as far as we know.

    Then how do you explain God Himself?
    Gentlemen may prefer Blondes, but Real Men prefer Redheads!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krupski View Post
    Then how do you explain God Himself?
    He's the guy that programmed the Matrix we are in.

  19. #59
    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    I had a hard time watching that "expert" after he gave the distance to the "edge of the universe" at 46 billion light years when actual scientists have pegged it at about 13.2 billion light years. Granted that 13.2 is as far as we can see using the Hubble Space Telescope, fixated at a single point and constantly focusing further and further. At it's maximum range the pictures returned showed billions of galaxy clusters instead of fewer and fewer items.

    And the funny thing about that experiment, when the Hubble optical assembly was completed at Perkin Elmer, the send out party had not only people from P&E and NASA but many scientists and astro-physicists. They were talking about using an open mind when the pictures came in, to take nothing based on passed ideas. One scientist then got up and talked about trying to see the end of the universe. Much to my father's dismay I stood up and asked the man to truly keep an open mind, and that if they couldn't see the end of the universe in the direction they were looking, turn the telescope around 180 degrees and again focus out, and if then you still couldn't find the end of the universe, you just proved that we on the earth are in fact the center of the universe.

    I got a lot of laughter that slowly died down as they realized the intent of my statement. The amazing thing to me that came out of that exchange, and one of the few times my father actually acknowledged my abilities, the Hubble scientists actually did what I suggested, and instead of going out as far as possible and seeing more of the same, and turning the telescope around since we obviously had to be closer to the other end, they saw exactly the same thing, focusing as far out as possible and continued to find more and more galaxies.

    Another thing that came out of the observations was not that the expansion was slowing as they expected (that preconceived thing again) they found that many galaxies were actually speeding up!

    The universe is an amazing area, and the "Big Bang" could be explained as God snapping his fingers and bang, the universe began.

  20. #60
    Registered User LAGC's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    The Big Bang doesn't connect with atheism. Atheism connects with religion/Christianity in how the two believe the universe was formed.
    Christians believe there was nothing, then God created the universe.
    Atheist believe there was nothing, then a Big Bang created the universe.
    I don't think most atheists believe that the Big Bang necessarily sprang from nothing. Maybe some of the notable physicists like Stephen Hawking, but even he had came around to conjecturing about the possibility of multiverses before he finally succumbed to his illness.

    Really, the only thing atheists agree on is that there was no need for a Creator to get the ball rolling and keep things rolling. Whether energy/matter always existed, in some shape or form, is an entirely open question. One that scientists don't have a definitive answer for... yet.
    "That tyranny has all the vices both of democracy and oligarchy is evident. As of oligarchy so of tyranny, the end is wealth; (for by wealth only can the tyrant maintain either his guard or his luxury). Both mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -- Aristotle, Book V, 350 B.C.E

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