PCC Pistol Caliber Carbines

[Richard Simmons]

I've asked about a couple of options in previous threads but thought perhaps we could do an overall pro/con thread.

Seems like the dedicated carbine is still the most popular but I'm seeing quite a few models being offered as a pistol with the Sig/arm brace. Here are my thoughts on both.

Carbines:

Hi-Point

Seem to be reliable and the new 10mm offering is interesting however, the proprietary, low capacity mags are something I don't care for.

Keltec:

My main comment on these, never shot one is that I didn't get one before they went up in price. All I seem to find locally are either overpriced, setup for mags other than Glock or if they are Glock compatible they're chambered in .40 S&W.

Beretta:

Seem like a very well made firearm but I don't care for the Battlestar Gallactica look and they are usually the most expensive in the store.

AR-9:

I've considered both an upper with mag well conversion and the dedicated carbine. Neither is cheap and not sure which mag set up makes the most sense based on reliability, availability and cost.

CZ EVO Skorpian:

These seem to be pretty good and mags are well priced.

M1 Carbine:

Can't recall who makes this one or what mags it takes but I know a member has one and likes it. Kinda like the old school look but need to look into it more.

Ruger PC carbine:

Very new and haven't seen enough reviews to form an opinion. Like the fact it can use three different types of mags but mostly that Glock is one of them as I don't own any Ruger pistols.

Pistols with brace:

Any of these offered based on models I posted above would have the same comments with the addition of the whole "can you legally shoulder the brace or not"?

Zenith: I really like this MP5 clone out of Turkey and most reviews have been very favorable but the price tag is hefty for a PPC.


Anyway, I'm sure I've overlooked some of the more obscure versions and intentionally omitted any that are no longer made but hopefully you catch my drift. Feel free to add any you favor and or comment on the ones I've posted. I'm at the point where I think this is an itch I'm going to have to scratch pretty soon.

[jet3534]

I recently purchased a hi-point 10mm carbine and I really like it. Reliability has been 100%. The ejection is a little weak. The idea in getting this was I wanted something a little more powerful than my 9mm and .45 handguns for home defense but less powerful than an AR or AK. For example I don't want to ever fire a round in a self defense situation and hit someone on the road 300 yards in front of my house. The factory 10mm loads range from hot to anemic. People I have talked to that have used the hot loads for deer hunting say the 10mm really drops a deer. Currently magazine availability on the Hi-point 100mm carbine is extremely limited. The limited magazine does not bother me. Jeff Cooper once said in all of his years of teaching he never met anyone who had to execute a magazine change. I know people who have been in Iraq firefights and never fired more the 1/2 a mag at a time.

[alismith]

The M-1 Carbine clone that I have is made by Chiappa and uses Beretta mags. The last time I took it out, Chuck shot it, also, and enjoyed it, too. But, he brought his real M-1 and I think he preferred that one over mine. Still, the 9 mm version is a lot cheaper to shoot than the .30 Carbine, so I'll stick to mine. It's a good little carbine and was reliable all the way.

However, I think my favorite carbine is the Kel-Tec SUB-2000. It's light weight, easy to use, accurate, takes Glock mags, and folds for easy transport....perfect for a truck gun or for hiking and camping.

There is nothing wrong with Hi-Points, either. I have both the 9 mm and the .45 ACP. Both are simple, light weight, accurate and very reliable. The ONLY downside is the low cap, proprietary mags. It would have been nice if they would have used the 1911 mags or Glock mags.....but, it's not a real problem. Another plus is the price. Usually, far cheaper than any other carbine. But, price is the only thing cheap about it.

I have an Auto Ordinance Tommy Gun (Semi) (I think Helen Keller has one, too) but it's too big and heavy to even consider carrying around, plus the mag prices are astronomical. The cheapest is about $70 for a stick mag, going up to $530 for a drum mag. Nothing is cheap concerning this carbine.... It looks cool and once the mags are fitted to the gun, it shoots fine.

I have a couple of Winchester carbines in .30-30 and .44 Mag, but I have an idea you're talking more about semis than lever actions.

[Helen Keller]

shop around, you can still get thompson 20/30 round mags for as low as $20

[alismith]

shop around, you can still get thompson 20/30 round mags for as low as $20

Any places, in particular?

[Richard Simmons]

Any places, in particular?

I've had mixed experiences with these guys years ago with a batch of BAR mags.

https://whatacountry.com/thompson.aspx

[Helen Keller]

out of everything i have I think i'd still roll with the uzi .

[alismith]

I've had mixed experiences with these guys years ago with a batch of BAR mags.

https://whatacountry.com/thompson.aspx

Thanks for the site.

[Richard Simmons]

out of everything i have I think i'd still roll with the uzi .

I though about the Uzi but didn't know if Norinco or IMI were still making it?

[Helen Keller]

if you got the $$ IMI is nice but a used vector is good.

[Richard Simmons]

if you got the $$ IMI is nice but a used vector is good.

What about the Norinco? Seems like I saw those with the wooden stock and liked that option. Saw .45 ACP model at an auction years ago, IMI as I recall and almost bid on it but the mags were lower capacity and hard to find IIRC.

Best of both calibers.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/758886294

[Schuetzenman]

I've got a Group Industries Uzi semi carbine. It is heavy for what it is. The only way the semi version of the Uzi makes any sense is if it was SBR'ed. The 16' barrels just look stupid. I have thought about doing the SBR paper on it but, never have. The Keltecs look interesting to me as they do fold over for compact storage in a vehicle. Much much lighter than an Uzi semi. The Ruger, its new but the reports all seem favorable. Myself, now I'd rather have an AR platform pistol in 9 mm if I wanted a pistol caliber type carbine weapon. Yes you can shoot the brace on your shoulder, for now anyway. I would also consider the ability to put a red dot on such a PC carbine a must, another strike against the old school Uzi.

[alismith]

I've had mixed experiences with these guys years ago with a batch of BAR mags.

https://whatacountry.com/thompson.aspx

Thanks for the link. Got a dealer to order some 20 rounders for me. The 20 rnd. mags were the only ones in stock. But, that's better than none.

[JTHunter]

Richard - from what I have read here, you are talking about semi-auto guns and ammo, right? Have you ever considered revolvers and lever actions? I ask as I now have a 4" GP-100 and a Marlin levergun in .38 Special/.357 Magnum. Granted, loads are 6 and 10 respectively, but isn't a .357 load more powerful than a 9mm? I'm not sure how the .40 S&W compares to the .357.

[Richard Simmons]

Richard - from what I have read here, you are talking about semi-auto guns and ammo, right? Have you ever considered revolvers and lever actions? I ask as I now have a 4" GP-100 and a Marlin levergun in .38 Special/.357 Magnum. Granted, loads are 6 and 10 respectively, but isn't a .357 load more powerful than a 9mm? I'm not sure how the .40 S&W compares to the .357.

My main interest is in the semiauto carbines however, while not a carbine I do have a Rossi Ranch Hand in .357 that is sort of a companion piece to my various revolvers in that caliber. I'm also looking for a lavergun in .41 mag. To go with my S&W model 57's.

[ltorlo64]

Ali is right, I did prefer the M1 Carbine to the reproduction in 9mm, but the reproduction was still fun to shoot! As for the M1 Carbine, it is technically a rifle caliber carbine whose ammo has the power of a .357 mag. I would expect that out of a pistol length barrel it would be less powerful, though.

[Richard Simmons]

Ok, LGS has a Keltec that takes Glock mags, $499. A pawn shop has a used Beretta Cx4 for $695, thought I would offer them $500. Lastly I've got $130 in gift cards for Sportsmans Warehouse so figured I'd head over there thus morning and see if they had one of the new Rugers in stock.

Don't see them available much but IMO the Keltec is a little high. Buds had them for around $370 with free shipping. Notice I said "had" as they were in stock on Monday but not today. Obviously the pawnshop is way high on the Beretta, at least I think it's high. It's in excellent, 98% condition but only comes with one crappy Eagle brand mag. I imagine they pulled the factory mag to sell separately.

Of the three mentioned which would be the best choice? They both take Glock mags but I'm leaning more towards the Ruger than the Keltec. If they have one in stock I can probably get the Ruger for around $440. I doubt the gun shop with the Keltec will come off their $499 price but let's say I can get it for $475. I've never had a Keltec but from the looks of it the Ruger seems like it would be the more rugged of the two. Also since the Ruger has a removable barrel/forearm the folding feature of the Keltec isn't that much of a selling point as far as compact storage. Thoughts?

[raxar]

Yeah, that is a crazy price on the kel-tec, I think mine was $375 or $399 new last year (g-17 mag model) With the options you have why don't you look into building a 9mm AR? You wouldn't be spending much more and you'd be getting a cooler gun, plus lowers that take glock mags are fairly easy to find.

Or if you're feeling brave look into the Extar

http://extarusa.com/ep9.htm

[Helen Keller]

i got to handle one of the new rugers.


It's a possibility, but it feels like a toy.

[Richard Simmons]

Didn't make it to Sportsmans Warehouse the other day but going tomorrow to check out the Ruger PC. They list a 10+ model and a 17+, same price of $529 but the 17+ shows out of stock. From what I can find the only difference between the two is the capacity of the factory mags that come with it. Is that correct? I've got plenty of Glock mags so could care less what the mag capacity is out of the box.