McCain dies

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Some more stuff to digest before we mourn such a great guy. https://prepareforchange.net/2017/09...f-the-us-navy/

[LAGC]

Over on Democratic Underground, there is post after post celebrating John McCain's life and what a maverick he was, a true war hero and patriot that put country before party.

That should tell you all you need to know about his legacy...

[ltorlo64]

Senator McCain was a war hero who served his country with honor and distinction during Vietnam. He was also not a conservative, supporting tax hikes, restrictions on the right to self-defense and supporting the Affordable Care Act. One can be a hero and still not be a conservative, and this was what Senator McCain was. I would not call him a traitor, but his idea of America, freedom and liberty were definitely not what the Founding Father's were.

[N/A]

And when John Kerry dies, they will laud him as a war hero also.

[N/A]

Ok, I'm going to address the elephant in the room here.

Just because a guy was in the service doesn't mean he deserves respect for his military service. I can think of a few guys in company overseas, who pulled any trick they could think of to get out of Nam. Others were so lazy or contemptible that they would fuck up just hoping to get sent home, or at least an easier do nothing job.

There's also the fact that military brass will go to extraordinary lengths to make the military look good, even to covering up shit.
There are too many willing to accept the Navy's investigation into the son/grandson of two Navy Admirals, that proclaim he didn't have nothing to do with USS Forestall fire. Knowing full well that it is the military way to overlook anything that would look bad for the Navy. They couldn't have an Admiral's son/grandson responsible for all the deaths, damage and destruction. Better to say they conclude it was just an accident.

Sure, it was a rocket from an F-4 behind McCain's plane, but who was at fault for causing that rocket to fire? It's just as legit to say McCain had a "wet start", as not. But we can't have the public knowing that.

The same as for him being a POW. All his fellow POWs were officers. Do we really think they are going to let the military be besmirched in public by the actions of McCain being made public? They respected the military too much, and we're very aware that if they did make it public, their careers would be over. The military certainly wasn't going to let it get out how much collaboration went on by some of the prisoners.

Let's be real, we know the military beauracracy will cover up and bury anything to keep them from looking bad. As devisive as the Viet Nam war was, they weren't about to let the truth about McCain get out.

Let's state the truth here, just being in the military doesn't make everyone honorable. Just being a POW doesn't make everyone a war hero.
There will always be those few who are disgusting, dishonorable human beings.
John McCain was one of those few.

John "swift boat" Kerry is the next one.

May fuck be upon both their memories.

[NAPOTS]

Even if he was a legitimate war hero and im not saying he was our was not, does that give him a free pass for the next 50 year?

[ltorlo64]

Even if he was a legitimate war hero and im not saying he was our was not, does that give him a free pass for the next 50 year?

No, but even some of the Founding Fathers were not as supportive of the Constitution as we would like to believe and that does not make them traitors. I don't think that he should be celebrated for his belief that the Constitution does not say what it does, but that is not enough to make him a traitor anymore than arguing for and signing the Sedition Act into law made John Adams a traitor.

[ltorlo64]

John "swift boat" Kerry is the next one.

And I will be the first to remind people that Secretary Kerry sat in front of Congressional Panels and purported to being an eyewitness to crimes which he had not reported and had done nothing to stop. He is a coward and a liar who, after that testimony, should have been court martialed, had his commission and any military honors stripped, and been dishonorably discharged.

I see this as different from Senator McCain who is accused of things but have not been proven, at least not to my satisfaction. Could it have happened like you say, I guess so but there would be a lot of loose lips to keep in check which lessens the likelihood, in my view, of it occurring that way.

[N/A]

And I will be the first to remind people that Secretary Kerry sat in front of Congressional Panels and purported to being an eyewitness to crimes which he had not reported and had done nothing to stop. He is a coward and a liar who, after that testimony, should have been court martialed, had his commission and any military honors stripped, and been dishonorably discharged.

I see this as different from Senator McCain who is accused of things but have not been proven, at least not to my satisfaction. Could it have happened like you say, I guess so but there would be a lot of loose lips to keep in check which lessens the likelihood, in my view, of it occurring that way.

As much as I respect you on this board, do you really think the Navy would have court-martial the son/grandson of two Admirals,... especially during the midst of war when every action of the military was looked upon as a failure.
Do you think they would allow active serving officers to speak about McCain? And if you were one of those officers who witnessed that cover-up, if it happened, how much disgust would you feel towards those who did the cover-up and just refuse to talk about it at all.

Some say the USS Liberty incident was a cover up. How do you feel about that?

[raxar]

[1 Patriot-of-many]

No, but even some of the Founding Fathers were not as supportive of the Constitution as we would like to believe and that does not make them traitors. I don't think that he should be celebrated for his belief that the Constitution does not say what it does, but that is not enough to make him a traitor anymore than arguing for and signing the Sedition Act into law made John Adams a traitor.

McCain helped stop the committee to look into our troops still in captivity. Why would that be? Sorry, he's a scumbag IMO, and almost all reports were he received special treatment and became a humming bird with his captors, a little Tokyo Rose so to speak. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/9/30/616291/-

[N/A]

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/in...ragedy-at-sea/

Itorlo, I've been looking and came across this link. After, reading it, I am willing to admit the "wet start" didn't happen. But the rest of the read is quite interesting and compelling.

[weevil]

I think a lot of the "hero worship" we're seeing has been spurred on by the fact he and Trump were hated enemies.

The MSM and the lefties are just falling all over themselves to try and canonize the bum...something tells me that if him and Trump were besties we would not be seeing near the amount of pro-McCain hype being vomited up by the media.

[JTHunter]

Having read every post, I can't really disagree with any of them.

Senator McCain was a war hero who served his country with honor and distinction during Vietnam. He was also not a conservative, supporting tax hikes, restrictions on the right to self-defense and supporting the Affordable Care Act. One can be a hero and still not be a conservative, and this was what Senator McCain was. I would not call him a traitor, but his idea of America, freedom and liberty were definitely not what the Founding Father's were.

Agreed. McCain MAY have been a decent politician when he started, but he changed and too much.

And when John Kerry dies, they will laud him as a war hero also.

"Lurch" is their golden boy.

[stevelyn]

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[ltorlo64]

Some say the USS Liberty incident was a cover up. How do you feel about that?

I think the USS LIBERTY is a great example of what I am saying. There is a lot of hard evidence that has come out that proves that was an attack and it was covered up. To do something like that is hard and takes a lot of people to keep the secret. What Senator McCain is accused of on the FORRESTAL has conjecture and theories to back it up, not hard evidence, which after 50+ years some of those keeping the secret would have released. Now, I have not done an exhaustive search for information about either incident, but the LIBERTY attack is easy to find evidence of, the FORRESTAL incident is not. That in my mind is the difference.

[ltorlo64]

I think a lot of the "hero worship" we're seeing has been spurred on by the fact he and Trump were hated enemies.

The MSM and the lefties are just falling all over themselves to try and canonize the bum...something tells me that if him and Trump were besties we would not be seeing near the amount of pro-McCain hype being vomited up by the media.

Exactly.

[ltorlo64]

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/in...ragedy-at-sea/

Itorlo, I've been looking and came across this link. After, reading it, I am willing to admit the "wet start" didn't happen. But the rest of the read is quite interesting and compelling.

That was an interesting read. I have been assigned as ship's company to 4 different carrier crews (I have served on the same carrier twice) and it is sad to say that his initial actions are what I would expect from a pilot. They get out of the way, go to the ready room and let the crew handle problems. The leaving for Saigon, on the other hand, is very disturbing and I wish it had been investigated more, if not by the Navy by the press. That was unprofessional and borders on disregard of duty from the information provided.

[alismith]

I want my president to the right thing and NOT order that the flag be flown at half mast , a nice parting FU to the piece of dog shit traitor.

According to the TV news, the White House flag was flown at half mast Saturday and Sunday, but was back at full mast on Monday. Trump did his part, but got his jab in....

[LAGC]

According to the TV news, the White House flag was flown at half mast Saturday and Sunday, but was back at full mast on Monday. Trump did his part, but got his jab in....

Yes, Trump would have kept the flag at full-mast the entire time if he could have.

Apparently though, the American Legion got pissed and demanded he lower the flag back to half-mast until McCain's internment, in honor of his military service.

Trump had no choice but to cave to their demands.