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Thread: AK-47 shot groups.

  1. #21
    Team GunsNet Silver 07/2012 NewbieAKguy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimberkid View Post
    I call that "Being able to shoot at the capability of the weapon" ...
    I was in my early twenty's, first firearms I bought after I moved away from home. Dad had a Remington 308 and a Winchester 243. But these were my first couple of rifles, they were old surplus guns that I picked out of a barrel at a hardware store. One was a long ass 303 Enfield, the other a Enfield Jungle Carbine which I'd only seen in Shotgun News. I thought they should be more accurate than they were because they were "Military Rifles" I was young and dumb. The long Enfield shot 6" - 8" groups at 100, and the carbine was worse about 8" - 10" if I remember correctly, and my eyes were much better 40 years ago. I kept shooting it off the bench trying to get better out of it, after a while an old guy looked through his spotting scope and said that when I can shoot a group like that off-hand, kneeling or prone it was time to get a better rifle and/or start hand-loading, He broke it down and finally I understood.
    I understand what you're saying, I do. I'm just amazed how much groups open up from 50yd to 100yd. As I said I'm not expecting match grade accuracy from it, but am I out of line thinking it would shoot better than 6-8" groups at 100yd? I guess I just expected somewhat better results from it seeing as that it's of newer manufacture with (folly of assuming) better barrel metallurgy and updated barrel manufacturing.

    Oh well, I guess shooting ARs just spoiled me somewhat. I'll try to keep things in perspective and actually don't mind testing different brands and types of ammo. I shot some more groups yesterday, just haven't have time to upload and post. I'll try tomorrow.
    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. ... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."--Thomas Jefferson

  2. #22
    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieAKguy View Post
    Interesting. And yet the rear sight is graduated out to 1000m. Quite curious the thinking between the two.
    I thought the same thing when I read the article.

  3. #23
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    Results from this past Friday (10-12-18)

    Up first is Red Army Standard 124gr FMJ
    RedArmy100-1.jpg

    RedArmy100yd-2.jpg

    RedArmy100yd-10rd.jpg

    RedArmy100yd-12rd.jpg

    As the writing on pic #3 says, while trying to do a 10 shot group I had an unexpected bump-fire and the round went way high so I didn't include it in the group; I was still getting used to the ALG trigger. Thinking I might swap the spring for one just a tad heavier. The reason I shot 12 grounds in the in the last group was to finish out a box.

    I apologize for the small pics. I wanted to post pics without having to use photobucket, but if they're too small for people to see I'll try them again. I also tried out some Tula 122gr FMJ and Wolf 123gr FMJ that day. I'll post pics when I can get to it.
    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. ... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."--Thomas Jefferson

  4. #24
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    Tula 122gr FMJ.

    Tula1.jpg

    Tula2.jpg

    Tula3.jpg
    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. ... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."--Thomas Jefferson

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieAKguy View Post
    I understand what you're saying, I do. I'm just amazed how much groups open up from 50yd to 100yd.
    If you could draw a line from your barrel to the poi at 50 you would see the group size increasing at an exponential rate at 100.

    As I said I'm not expecting match grade accuracy from it, but am I out of line thinking it would shoot better than 6-8" groups at 100yd? I guess I just expected somewhat better results from it seeing as that it's of newer manufacture with (folly of assuming) better barrel metallurgy and updated barrel manufacturing.
    Just because newer technology is available, doesn't mean its getting used ... If you have a new barrel I'm sure it was made from the cheapest barrel blanks available, probably on old equipment and made as fast as possible, cutting every corner they could get away with, unless it's advertised as a better barrel! I think there were some barrels made by Green Mountin or something like that ... but if I remember correctly, the WSAR is a Century build.

    If you have an original barrel ... well, it would be made with the 1963 technology just like the rest of the parts and have a life of about 6,000 rounds.


    <SNIP>
    I remember seeing the spec's of an M1 Grand in 1938 ... the average group was 6" at 100yards and I'm betting that if it was anywhere close to that they shipped it.

    <EDIT> I meant "from" 1938 ... not "in" 1938 as I wasn't there ... my daddy was only 8, so I wasn't even a twinkle in his eye then!
    Last edited by kimberkid; 10-16-2018 at 10:51 AM.

  6. #26
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    Wolf Polyformance (black box) 123gr FMJ

    Wolf1.jpg

    The circled holes.
    Wolf2.jpg


    When I try to attach the third group (10 shot group) I'm told I exceed the quota by 6.9 KB. I'll try to post via a different way.
    Last edited by NewbieAKguy; 10-16-2018 at 01:28 PM.
    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. ... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."--Thomas Jefferson

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimberkid View Post
    I remember seeing the spec's of an M1 Grand in 1938 ... the average group was 6" at 100yards and I'm betting that if it was anywhere close to that they shipped it.

    <EDIT> I meant "from" 1938 ... not "in" 1938 as I wasn't there ... my daddy was only 8 then, so I wasn't even a twinkle in his eye then!
    Fair enough. FWIW I've never had 8" groups with my Garand (1954 or '58 build I think) though, with its iron sights. And with the AK I'm getting them with a scope. I truly get what you're saying. It's just eye opening to me.
    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. ... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."--Thomas Jefferson

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieAKguy View Post
    Fair enough. FWIW I've never had 8" groups with my Garand (1954 or '58 build I think) though, with its iron sights. And with the AK I'm getting them with a scope. I truly get what you're saying. It's just eye opening to me.
    Your scope is mounted solid? Just the slightest movement in the base, mount or rings will give horrible groups. (not meant to be an insult, but just re-check)

    I've got other AK's that I don't "remember" shooting for group size, but I'm sure I did; weather permitting I'll get them out Thursday, but I don't have all the different types of ammo you've tried, just several cases of the Wolf Performance. I've got a home build AMD 65, Yugo PAP M92 (both 7.62x39) they both have short barrels and I don't think I have optic's mounted but with a big enough piece of paper we should be able to get an idea of what they can do.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimberkid View Post
    Your scope is mounted solid? Just the slightest movement in the base, mount or rings will give horrible groups. (not meant to be an insult, but just re-check)

    I've got other AK's that I don't "remember" shooting for group size, but I'm sure I did; weather permitting I'll get them out Thursday, but I don't have all the different types of ammo you've tried, just several cases of the Wolf Performance. I've got a home build AMD 65, Yugo PAP M92 (both 7.62x39) they both have short barrels and I don't think I have optic's mounted but with a big enough piece of paper we should be able to get an idea of what they can do.
    To the best of my knowledge it is. At the moment I only have one scope to do group testing (a 3-9x Redfield ((Leupold)); for my AR-15, AR-10, AK etc. It's mounted in a P.E.P.R. mount. The mount does raise it up a tad high on my AK, but I just added a folded up tea towel and duct taped it to my stock to raise my cheek weld...bonus, it didn't feel like I got punched in the face after a day of shooting, lol!

    I made sure to torque down the scope mounting screws to spec and I've checked it to make sure it hasn't moved, which it hasn't (I think, lol). I'll recheck the Midwest Industries mount (https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com...-p/mi-aksm.htm) I use.

    A friend at work has a bore scope and says he'll take a peek and see if there's anything amiss. He can lap it too if necessary.
    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. ... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."--Thomas Jefferson

  10. #30
    Senior Member raxar's Avatar

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    So here's a relevant thread necromance. As I said way back when my yugo's shoot pretty good, here is today's group from my M90NP at 100 yards



    Ammo was my reloads with 50 grain varmint bullets with a 4x POSP scope.
    "I didn't even expect him to come up here, thinking it was that sweet. Thinking it's that candy land like that," White said. "He wanted to pickpocket everybody. But people out here, they weren't going for none of that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Spambot
    We careered round and round for perhaps an hour, flying rather than floating, getting gradually more and more into the middle of the surge, and then nearer and nearer to its horrible inner edge.
    Quote Originally Posted by ROCK ME AMADEUS
    Then Use the motherfucking PURPLE ....

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by raxar View Post
    So here's a relevant thread necromance. As I said way back when my yugo's shoot pretty good, here is today's group from my M90NP at 100 yards



    Ammo was my reloads with 50 grain varmint bullets with a 4x POSP scope.
    Very nice. About 3.5-4" group? If I could get that out of mine I'd be content.
    "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them. ... Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever."--Thomas Jefferson

  12. #32
    Senior Member raxar's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieAKguy View Post
    Very nice. About 3.5-4" group? If I could get that out of mine I'd be content.
    A little bit less than that. If I make it to the range this weekend I'll take the other yugos out and see how they group with the scope.
    "I didn't even expect him to come up here, thinking it was that sweet. Thinking it's that candy land like that," White said. "He wanted to pickpocket everybody. But people out here, they weren't going for none of that."

    Quote Originally Posted by Spambot
    We careered round and round for perhaps an hour, flying rather than floating, getting gradually more and more into the middle of the surge, and then nearer and nearer to its horrible inner edge.
    Quote Originally Posted by ROCK ME AMADEUS
    Then Use the motherfucking PURPLE ....

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