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Thread: Reminding People of how Democrats and Republicans Negotiate

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Reminding People of how Democrats and Republicans Negotiate

    Just posted to FB. It is a bit long, but it shows the narrative that the Democrats are patiently trying to negotiate while the Republicans, specifically President Trump, are refusing the negotiate.

    As I read about the current government shutdown I think it is a good idea to look at this and the last shutdown back in 2013. By looking at how both sides are acting and how it is being reported I think it is easier to determine what our course of action should be in communicating with our Senators and Representatives about how to resolve this shutdown.

    Back in 2013 budget talks broke down when Republicans in the House tried to defund the Affordable Care Act (ACA). The Democrats, as would be expected would not let this happen. The Republicans then proposed funding the ACA but delaying implementation 1 year as there were many issues with it at the time. The Democrats, led by President Obama, again said no, the only acceptable course of action was to fund the ACA and make no changes to it. Since the two sides could not agree the government shutdown for 16 days. After 16 days the Republicans relented and funded the ACA and removed the requirement to delay implementation. During “negotiations” the Democrats did not offer any alternatives or compromises, it was all or nothing. The news reports, however, discussed how the Republicans were at fault for even trying to do anything to the ACA as they should have known that the Democrats would not let anything happen to it. Ironically, illegally, and unconstitutionally, however, after the Republicans withdrew their request to delay implementation the President acting without congressional approval delayed the implementation of the ACA by one year, the exact thing the Republicans had asked for.

    In leading up to the current government shutdown the President has asked for money for a wall along the southern border. This has happened at least twice before with the President asking for money, but Democrats, specifically in the Senate because of bastardized filibuster rules, saying that none would be allowed. In each of the last two budget discussions the President was told that in the next round of negotiations funding for the wall would be discussed.

    That brings us to this government shutdown, which is many ways is very similar to the one it 2013. The Republicans, led by the President started two budget discussions ago asking for $5 billion of the $25 billion needed for a border wall. The Democrats position was that no money will be spent on a wall. Next, the President offered to add a pathway to citizenship for 1.6 million “Dreamers”, 800,000 more than the Democrats were discussing. The Democrats refused to budge or to provide any alternative plan and the discussion of funding the wall and the fate of the “Dreamers” was kicked down the road to where we are now.

    Again the President asked for $5 billion dollars for a border wall and again the Democrats said no. Again the Democrats have made no alternative proposals, only the demand that no money be spent on a border wall on our southern border. The news reporting on this as in 2013 is that Democrats have put out what they are willing to do, no border wall funding, and it is up to the Republicans to acquiesce to Democrat demands. Each day I listen to the news it is about how the Democrats are patiently waiting for a new proposal from the White House and Republicans that does not include border wall funding so that the stalemate can come to an end.

    It is important to see that the only people trying to negotiate are the Republicans. The Democrats position has not moved, but the Republican position has, to the point of offering something that they do not necessarily support, citizenship for “Dreamers” in order to get funding for the border wall. When you hear news reports or Democrat politicians stating that they are waiting for the Republicans to negotiate, that is not what they are saying. They are saying that there is no room for compromise and that the Republicans must succumb to the Democrats will. Despite what you hear on the news, it is the President who is trying to negotiate a way out of this shut down. It is the Democrats who, by ignoring any proposal except for the one where they get everything they want, shutdown the government and are preventing it from being funded. I recommend that you contact your Senators and Representatives and tell them to start negotiating.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

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    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    As I stated in the other thread, the democrat mantra has always been "what's mine is mine and what's your's is negotiable". Hasn't changed, but they are finally up against a republican who hold the same stance, and I hope Trump continues to shove it in the face of the democrats that were for a wall before Trump was for a wall.

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Me too.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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    The Dim method of compromising is that they demand the Reps give them everything they want, they angrily accept it, demand more, and then use it as a weapon in the next election.

    Always remember a few things......

    The Dims are not afraid the wall will not work or will cost too much. They're terrified the wall will work only too well.

    The Dims want future serf-voters who will always vote for the people promising free stuff.

    The RINO Repubs want their big business buddies to continue to have a source of cheap labor.

    The Dims are totally unconcerned and uncaring about American citizens killed, raped, or who loose their jobs as long as they can import new voters so they don't have to worry about the Deplorables in Fly-Over country, who are all bib overall wearing, toothless, uneducated, racist, gun nut, bible thumpers.

    NEVER, EVER trust a Dim to keep their word. They have a long history of giving their word of honor that if a Repub will give them what they want, they'll do something like cutting spending or securing the border.
    They NEVER keep their word.

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfariswheel View Post
    NEVER, EVER trust a Dim to keep their word. They have a long history of giving their word of honor that if a Repub will give them what they want, they'll do something like cutting spending or securing the border.
    They NEVER keep their word.

    I had thought about starting with President Reagan's compromise and the Democrat's broken promise to provide border security, but it was already long and I want people to read it so they understand that what is being reported and spoken by the Democrats is not true.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 T2K's Avatar

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    The Dems having the legacy media, the tech companies (our de facto national communications platforms), Hollywood, musicians and other "celebrities" on their side is their main weapon. They can really shape the narrative for people that aren't very informed.

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    Senior Member Full Otto's Avatar

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    President Trump, in a televised White House address Saturday, offered Democrats a compromise package on immigration in an effort to end the nearly monthlong partial government shutdown
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...s-of-rejection
    Trump announced that he was prepared to back a three-year extension of protections for 700,000 immigrants who came to the country illegally as children and were shielded from deportation under the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. This, in exchange for the $5.7 billion he has requested for a barrier on the southern border with Mexico.
    ...............
    The offered deal would also extend protections for 300,000 recipients of the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) program -- which protects immigrants from designated countries with conditions that prevent nationals from returning safely.
    ..............

    But Trump’s proposal was quickly swatted down by Democrats. Indeed, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi came out ahead of the announcement to say the anticipated proposal comprised a "compilation of several previously rejected initiatives, each of which is unacceptable and in total, do not represent a good-faith effort to restore certainty to people’s lives."
    ...............
    Striking a similar tone, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said it was unfortunate that in an effort to resolve the shutdown, Trump "keeps putting forward one-sided and ineffective remedies."
    For peace of mind, resign as general manager of the universe

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Full Otto View Post
    President Trump, in a televised White House address Saturday, offered Democrats a compromise package on immigration in an effort to end the nearly monthlong partial government shutdown
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...s-of-rejection
    Trump announced that he was prepared to back a three-year extension of protections for 700,000 immigrants who came to the country illegally as children and were shielded from deportation under the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. This, in exchange for the $5.7 billion he has requested for a barrier on the southern border with Mexico.
    ...............
    The offered deal would also extend protections for 300,000 recipients of the Temporary Protected Status (TPS) program -- which protects immigrants from designated countries with conditions that prevent nationals from returning safely.
    ..............

    But Trump’s proposal was quickly swatted down by Democrats. Indeed, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi came out ahead of the announcement to say the anticipated proposal comprised a "compilation of several previously rejected initiatives, each of which is unacceptable and in total, do not represent a good-faith effort to restore certainty to people’s lives."
    ...............
    Striking a similar tone, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said it was unfortunate that in an effort to resolve the shutdown, Trump "keeps putting forward one-sided and ineffective remedies."
    Wow. Trump's using the same negotiating tactics the Dims use when they "negotiate." Must not taste so good when the tables are turned back on you, right Chucky? Right, Nancy?
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Just realized that Trump pulled another fast one on the Dims. In refusing Trump's deal, the Dims may have just lost 1,000,000 voters as Trump offered to protect them and the Dims said, "no," to that.

    The Dims are using them as pawns....I just hope those 1,000,000 realize that.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

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    Senior Member Full Otto's Avatar

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    IIRC he offered a deal with DACA early in his presidency over immigration
    They refused and he pulled it off the table
    He's working up to something
    For peace of mind, resign as general manager of the universe

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    Senior Member NAPOTS's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    Just realized that Trump pulled another fast one on the Dims. In refusing Trump's deal, the Dims may have just lost 1,000,000 voters as Trump offered to protect them and the Dims said, "no," to that.

    The Dims are using them as pawns....I just hope those 1,000,000 realize that.
    I have a feeling the deal was to prove a point. He knew they wouldn't take it but he threw out what seems like a reasonable compromise, makes them look like dicks.

  12. #12
    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    The deal that Trump put forward is very close to the one he presented earlier. As NAPOTS points out it, is shows that the Democrats are not willing to compromise. It also shows that they are the ones that would rather keep government shutdown than to find any common ground and get it reopened. From what I see in the polls more and more people are seeing the truth, that this shutdown could be stopped except that the Democrats are unwilling to find a way to make it happen. I hope this is remembered in 18 months.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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    This is a president worthy of our prayers.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    This is a president worthy of our prayers.
    Actually, they all are.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    I have to post Judge Jeanine's lashing out at Peloci. This should be a forced watch for every American.

    https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judg...-and-negotiate

  16. #16
    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

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    Good video 'nut.
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

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