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Thread: Does anyone still find pre '65 coins in circulation?

  1. #81
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    I doubt that silver is worth enough for anyone to spend the time and material to make and silver plate a fake silver round.
    Maybe a 10oz bar or larger, but not 1oz pieces.

    Do your due diligence and research companies on line. If they have a bad rep, you'll find out in an online review. Almost all major precious metal vendors will safeguard themselves and customers against fakes. It's their business on the line.
    No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by N/A View Post
    I doubt that silver is worth enough for anyone to spend the time and material to make and silver plate a fake silver round.
    Maybe a 10oz bar or larger, but not 1oz pieces.

    Do your due diligence and research companies on line. If they have a bad rep, you'll find out in an online review. Almost all major precious metal vendors will safeguard themselves and customers against fakes. It's their business on the line.
    That's kinda how I figure it, at least for Silver.

  3. #83
    Team GunsNet Silver 12/2011 N/A's Avatar

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    Back to pre-65 coins, I picked up a 1941 penny a few days ago, and a 1940D penny this morning.
    No enemy of America would have ever been killed if they didn't show up to be killed. HDR

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    How hard would it be to counterfeit a coin? It'd be about the same as a round wouldn't it? I just got the monument metals first buyer coins, how would I know they are any more real than rounds I bought elsewhere?
    I have an old counterfeit silver dollar with an late 1800s date. I take it and two real dollars and ask people to tell wich is the counterfeit, so far no one has picked the fake. The easiest way to determine if they're fake or not is to drop them on a hard surface (real silver coins ring, fakes thunjk like clad coins today do), or weigh them (fake is heavier in my case). I can determine a fake coin, but not a fake bar or round. I couldn't tell if a bar/round was silver or some other shiny metal. I also have a few books on hand that provide historical value, silver content, etc for US and foreign coins, everyone interested in silver should have similar books on hand.
    Last edited by 5.56NATO; 04-19-2019 at 03:50 PM.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
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  5. #85
    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2015 Nobeard's Avatar

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    Been awhile since I've gotten any pre-64 coins.
    Usually check my change and know what they sound like.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    If shtf I won't be trading in rounds or bars since I have no way of knowing if they're legit silver or not, or if they are, their content. For example, someone sold a mess of gold to China I think it was, and the bars were mostly zinc or some other metal with a layer of gold. With coins they're a known value.
    Heard something similar awhile back, except it was China that was producing counterfeit gold bars. Tungsten cores with a layer of gold around the outside so the size to weight ratio was correct.

    There have been some counterfeit Morgan silver dollars going around the last few years. These are usually in excellent condition so they'll have the numismatic value collectors are after. There's a coin dealer at the Dallas area gun shows who let us know about this. He's got an electronic tester that will determine authenticity of gold or silver coins. Think it was made by Sigma Metalytics, but I'm not absolutely sure.

    Anyone that's serious about getting into precious metals should get one. Web search shows they cost about 750$ which would pay for itself if it kept you away from one fake Krugerrand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobeard View Post
    Been awhile since I've gotten any pre-64 coins.
    Usually check my change and know what they sound like.



    Heard something similar awhile back, except it was China that was producing counterfeit gold bars. Tungsten cores with a layer of gold around the outside so the size to weight ratio was correct.

    There have been some counterfeit Morgan silver dollars going around the last few years. These are usually in excellent condition so they'll have the numismatic value collectors are after. There's a coin dealer at the Dallas area gun shows who let us know about this. He's got an electronic tester that will determine authenticity of gold or silver coins. Think it was made by Sigma Metalytics, but I'm not absolutely sure.

    Anyone that's serious about getting into precious metals should get one. Web search shows they cost about 750$ which would pay for itself if it kept you away from one fake Krugerrand.
    Great info! Cost about $600 without wand, but even more with wands to test bullion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrHGqqr7v7c If I get deep into buying silver I might have to get one though!

  7. #87
    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    How hard would it be to counterfeit a coin? It'd be about the same as a round wouldn't it? I just got the monument metals first buyer coins, how would I know they are any more real than rounds I bought elsewhere?
    The best way to check silver rounds is with the sigma tester. You can also do a specific gravity test but that is like calculus to me. If you know the specifications of the round you can check the weight, thickness and diameter.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking350 View Post
    I don't "collect" so I don't buy coins with numismatic value. Numismatic value is derived from a loose combination of scarcity (mintage) and demand. There are mintage numbers known and published for all government minted coins. You have no idea how many generic rounds have been minted. While I do have a few generic rounds that I got from those spot deals from dealers, I have mostly junk silver bought from individuals. If you do buying on Ebay, enroll in their Ebay bucks. From time to time they send you an email offering between 8% and 10% Ebay bucks. Buying with that from the big dealers like Apmex and others will bring you very close to spot. Here is a link to a page that shows you what the cost is versus spot price if you key in what Ebay bucks percentage you are getting. https://findbullionprices.com/ebay-b...ver&discount=1
    I had one of those email offers of 8% EBay bucks so I bought the roll of quarters from Apmex. Very close to spot. That page I linked to in the quoted post said I was only $0.25 over spot.
    Last edited by Viking350; 04-24-2019 at 01:41 PM.

  9. #89
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    If you hold metal, don't let the bank "hold" it for you.



    Greyerz – Another Swiss Bank Can’t Find Their Client’s Gold
    The gold was allocated and the client had the bar numbers. The client wanted to store the gold through our company and instructed the bank accordingly. But the gold wasn’t there any more. The gold was supposed to be segregated but the bank had stored it in the collective vault. And the client’s allocated, numbered bars were not to be found anywhere.
    Presumably, the bank will accept liability and buy new bars for the client. But again this proves that it is not safe to keep your gold in a bank. We have regularly experienced similar problems with many different Swiss Banks, big or small.

    In normal times when there is still physical gold available, the bank will clearly rectify the problem. But when there is a shortage of gold and the bank comes under pressure, they could easily “borrow” client gold. If at that point there is no gold available, the bank could have a liability that it wouldn’t be able to meet, especially if the gold price rises fast.

    https://kingworldnews.com/greyerz-an...-clients-gold/











    Not long ago there was a similar case where a fairly well known metals trader held metal for clients for a monthly fee. This holder promised safe, segregated storage and immediate delivery when desired. His plan was sell clients metal then store that same metal for clients in a segregated vault - wich would work until someone actually wanted their gold. A client decided to take possession of his metal after a few years and the metals trader couldn't come up with timely delivery, provided nothing but months of excuses. Come to find out the metals trader had never even bought the metal to begin with but had pocketed the customer's metal order as well as the subsequent storage fees. The trader had to make good on the deal and source some metal, and eventually did after months had passed. I presume this is standard practice with some metals dealers.

    On a like note, when you deposit your money in a bank it's no longer your money but theirs. If you keep a safe deposit box, the contents belong to the bank. If the bank folds, it confiscates all your deposits and issues an iou in the form of stock in that failing bank, the bank's creditors get first dibs on any real assets that didn't disappear overnite. All of this is due the bail-in laws passed after the 0bama financial crisis. Bail-in meaning where depositors make good on any bank gambling losses and are thereafter stuck with worthless paper.

    Here's a textbook example of the practice;
    "On October 31, 2011, MF Global executives admitted that transfer of $700 million from customer accounts to the broker-dealer and a loan of $175 million in customer funds to MF Global's U.K. subsidiary to cover (or mask) liquidity shortfalls at the company occurred on October 28, 2011. MF could not repay these monies with its own funds. Improper co-mingling, or mixing, of company and client funds took place for days before the illicit transfer and loans, and perhaps for many other days earlier in the year. According to the New York Times, "MF Global dipped again and again into customer funds to meet the demands", perhaps beginning as early as August 2011."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MF_Global



    What I'm getting at is if you can't hold it in your hand, it's not yours because you gave it to someone else.
    Last edited by 5.56NATO; 07-01-2019 at 04:01 PM.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
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  10. #90
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post


    What I'm getting at is if you can't hold it in your hand, it's not yours because you gave it to someone else.
    Agree 100%.
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  11. #91
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    If you ever wondered who, how, or what is keeping metal prices low;



    A Whale Is Accumulating Silver Futures
    Silver’s recent price performance has been disappointing. Normally, it is almost twice as volatile as gold, so when the gold price rises 11%, as it has since last December, you would expect silver to rise about 20%. Instead it has fallen marginally.

    The message for silver investors is seven of the eight largest traders appear to have become complacent. If China is the whale in the market, then discovery could be a very painful process for them. Its unfolding could be dramatic, likely to coincide with the next move upwards in the gold price.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...silver-futures


    A Long Shadow Creeps over the Economy This Summer
    Freight rates have dipped year-over-year for six months straight while loads on the spot market … fell by 50.3% in June year-over-year. Truckers have also continued to warn of a “bloodbath” as they slash their profit expectations and companies file for bankruptcy.“
    Zero Hedge
    A fifty-percent drop in one year? That’s massive. In economic terms, these reports about the reports are starting to read like a Halloween script.
    http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/a...r-the-economy/

    Regional Truck Carrier LME "Suddenly & Abruptly" Shuts Doors, Ceases Operations
    Less-than-truckload carrier LME has reportedly "suddenly and abruptly" shut down its operations, according to FreightWaves.
    The company is a regional carrier based in Minnesota that operated throughout the Midwest. The company had terminals in 30 locations across the U.S. and through interline agreements services all of North America. It also worked with major companies like 3M, John Deere and Toro.
    The company reportedly included "over 600 men and women" and has been listed as having 382 power units and 1,228 trailers, with 424 truck drivers.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ses-operations
    Last edited by 5.56NATO; 07-12-2019 at 04:29 PM.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

  12. #92
    Guns Network Lifetime Member #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    If you ever wondered who, how, or what is keeping metal prices low;



    A Whale Is Accumulating Silver Futures
    Silver’s recent price performance has been disappointing. Normally, it is almost twice as volatile as gold, so when the gold price rises 11%, as it has since last December, you would expect silver to rise about 20%. Instead it has fallen marginally.

    The message for silver investors is seven of the eight largest traders appear to have become complacent. If China is the whale in the market, then discovery could be a very painful process for them. Its unfolding could be dramatic, likely to coincide with the next move upwards in the gold price.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...silver-futures


    A Long Shadow Creeps over the Economy This Summer
    Freight rates have dipped year-over-year for six months straight while loads on the spot market … fell by 50.3% in June year-over-year. Truckers have also continued to warn of a “bloodbath” as they slash their profit expectations and companies file for bankruptcy.“
    Zero Hedge
    A fifty-percent drop in one year? That’s massive. In economic terms, these reports about the reports are starting to read like a Halloween script.
    http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/a...r-the-economy/

    Regional Truck Carrier LME "Suddenly & Abruptly" Shuts Doors, Ceases Operations
    Less-than-truckload carrier LME has reportedly "suddenly and abruptly" shut down its operations, according to FreightWaves.
    The company is a regional carrier based in Minnesota that operated throughout the Midwest. The company had terminals in 30 locations across the U.S. and through interline agreements services all of North America. It also worked with major companies like 3M, John Deere and Toro.
    The company reportedly included "over 600 men and women" and has been listed as having 382 power units and 1,228 trailers, with 424 truck drivers.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ses-operations
    LME was union, then abruptly closed it's doors, screwing the drivers out of paychecks. Then opened up non union with the same equipment different name. Union sued and won all the backpay. Not surprised they went bankrupt again. That's not a classic case to use as to why they closed up for the second time. https://transportationnation.com/ltl...Qt-iNdw8nsPbl8
    Last edited by 1 Patriot-of-many; 07-13-2019 at 11:57 AM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    LME was union, then abruptly closed it's doors, screwing the drivers out of paychecks. Then opened up non union with the same equipment different name. Union sued and won all the backpay. Not surprised they went bankrupt again. That's not a classic case to use as to why they closed up for the second time. https://transportationnation.com/ltl...Qt-iNdw8nsPbl8
    Perhaps not classic but it may represent more instances than one would consider. The part about freight rates dropping 50 percent should be enough to cause most carriers to crumble, and a few megacarriers to monopolise afterwards.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    Perhaps not classic but it may represent more instances than one would consider. The part about freight rates dropping 50 percent should be enough to cause most carriers to crumble, and a few megacarriers to monopolise afterwards.
    There's gonna be a equilibrium, right now Amazon is driving freight rates down, but the guys that will haul for them on the cheap is gonna dwindle. Already there is backlash. I wouldn't worry yet. Freight is still up, I work for a regional LTL company and it's busy. A few mega carriers is never gonna happen. There's always someone that will compete, companies, independent operators, mom and pop, as long as there is a profit and worth the time for the driver and company on the road it will never happen.
    Last edited by 1 Patriot-of-many; 07-14-2019 at 02:28 PM.

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    Bank Run: Deutsche Bank Clients Are Pulling $1 Billion A Day
    There is a reason James Simons' RenTec is the world's best performing hedge fund - it spots trends (even if they are glaringly obvious) well ahead of almost everyone else, and certainly long before the consensus.
    That's what happened with Deutsche Bank, when as we reported two weeks ago, the quant fund pulled its cash from Deutsche Bank as a result of soaring counterparty risk, just days before the full - and to many, devastating - extent of the German lender's historic restructuring was disclosed, and would result in a bank that is radically different from what Deutsche Bank was previously (see "The Deutsche Bank As You Know It Is No More").
    In any case, now that RenTec is long gone, and questions about the viability of Deutsche Bank are swirling - yes, it won't be insolvent overnight, but like the world's biggest melting ice cube, there is simply no equity value there any more - everyone else has decided to cut their counterparty risk with the bank with the €45 trillion in derivatives, and according to Bloomberg Deutsche Bank clients, mostly hedge funds, have started a "bank run" which has culminated with about $1 billion per day being pulled from the bank.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...-1-billion-day



    If db crashes, it may take the eurozone with it. If the ec crashes, we will crash a few weeks later as banks linked by debt yet separated by an ocean scramble to cover losses (by stealing depositors accts) and fail. In the meantime gold and silver will skyrocket. Also, db is holding about the largest derivatives exposure in the world. In the above case of db failing, it will be due to mismanagement and corruption at the bank leading to profitability losses triggering a bank run by depositors scared their deposits will be lost, causing a death spiral from wich there's no return - that the bank will blame on depositors.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

  16. #96
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    I started buying silver in March, it dipped down, now is heading up quite a bit fractionally from the lows since then.

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    Nissan has announced that the company will layoff 12,500 people globally after their profits plunged 98.5%. The Japanese carmaker will cut production capacity by around 10% by the end of 2022 as sales fell in a number of its major markets.
    https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...lunge_07252019


    Keep in mind most if not all car makers are hurting, sales are slow, and there has never been more car loan defaults than right now. I've heard home loans and credit card debt are the next defaulters. Also keep in mind there will be no bail out from we the people tax dollars like last time it all fell apart, they will use bail ins where your bank deposits are the bail out and you get a iou in stock from a bank that has collapsed.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    Nissan has announced that the company will layoff 12,500 people globally after their profits plunged 98.5%. The Japanese carmaker will cut production capacity by around 10% by the end of 2022 as sales fell in a number of its major markets.
    https://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...lunge_07252019


    Keep in mind most if not all car makers are hurting, sales are slow, and there has never been more car loan defaults than right now. I've heard home loans and credit card debt are the next defaulters. Also keep in mind there will be no bail out from we the people tax dollars like last time it all fell apart, they will use bail ins where your bank deposits are the bail out and you get a iou in stock from a bank that has collapsed.
    I think it's more the market is saturated than car loans in default. Look around you at any stoplight. Everybody has a new vehicle except reasonable people.. I think that's wrong as to defaults.

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    Agreed, only me and my neighbor seem to have cars with rust, chipped paint, etc, everyone else is in debt over their eyebrows it seems.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

  20. #100
    Senior Member Viking350's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    Agreed, only me and my neighbor seem to have cars with rust, chipped paint, etc, everyone else is in debt over their eyebrows it seems.
    The wife drives a 2012 and I drive a 2005.

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