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Thread: The Difference Between AG Holder and AG Barr on Contempt of Congress

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    The Difference Between AG Holder and AG Barr on Contempt of Congress

    In 2012 Attorney General Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress by a Republican House of Representatives. Now, in 2019, a Democrat House is set to hold Attorney General Bill Barr in contempt of Congress. As these happened in fairly close proximity to each other, I think it is good to compare and contrast the two situations.

    On December 10, 2010, Border Patrol Agent Brain Terry was killed in a gun battle with a Mexican drug cartel. It was determined that he had been killed by a person using an AK-47 that had been illegally smuggled out of the US in federal law enforcement operation called “Fast and Furious” (F&F). During F&F about 2,000 firearms were allowed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) to be smuggled across the Mexican border. When it was found that ATF had known that the firearm used to kill agent Terry was taken to Mexico illegally, but had lost track of it after it was in Mexico, congressional investigations (and Inspector General) were launched. During the investigation the Department of Justice, (which was ran by AG Holder), sent a letter to Senator Grassley stating that had done everything in its power to stop guns for going to Mexico. The problem was, this was not true. In fact, the DOJ ended up recalling the letter 10 months after it was sent because it was so problematic. As Congress came to realize that the letter was not true, and about 2 months before the letter was recalled, the House Government and Oversight committee subpoenaed information concerning the letter. AG Holder refused to turn over these documents, as well as some others, and was held in contempt of Congress. When the vote was held it was passed by a bipartisan majority. Democrats in large part were angry with the vote, but 17 voted to hold the AG in contempt.

    In the current scenario Democrats are pushing to hold AG Barr in contempt for not turning over the full, unredacted, report of the Mueller investigation. This report found that there was no collusion with the Russians by the Trump campaign and, by my reading, no enough evidence to support a charge of obstruction of justice. The AG is prevented by law passed by Congress after President Clinton was impeached. This law prevents the AG from turning over the information that touches on active investigations, could jeopardize investigative methods and techniques, or could be unduly prejudicial to people not charged. So, while the AG is following the law Representative Nadler plans to hold a vote to hold AG Barr in contempt for following that law.

    As can be seen the two scenarios are totally different. In AG Holder’s case he withheld information and documents that were definitely within the purview of Congress’s role to provide oversight of government actions. This is especially true considering that the DOJ under AG Holder’s leadership sent a factually incorrect letter to a senator that was only retracted when it became clear that it had been found out. In AG Barr’s case he has provided all the information that he is allowed to by a law that was designed to prevent the release of information that had no purpose but to be politically damaging as had been done to President Clinton.

    I recommend that we contact our Representatives and ask them to not take the politically motivated and unjust action of holding AG Barr in contempt.
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    Funny how that works out. Also brings to mind the obstruction of justice when 33,000 subpoenad emails are intentionally deleted as well as bleach bitted hard drives, crushed sim cards and blackberries, as well as many other obstructions the killary camp engaged in with doj collusion. And then there's the foreign collusion between a sitting and campaigning president with the top leadership of Russia live on camera.

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    Funny how that works out. Also brings to mind the obstruction of justice when 33,000 subpoenad emails are intentionally deleted as well as bleach bitted hard drives, crushed sim cards and blackberries, as well as many other obstructions the killary camp engaged in with doj collusion. And then there's the foreign collusion between a sitting and campaigning president with the top leadership of Russia live on camera.

    It's not obstruction if the Dims do it. Anyway, only fake obstruction counts, not real obstruction.
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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    Funny how that works out. Also brings to mind the obstruction of justice when 33,000 subpoenad emails are intentionally deleted as well as bleach bitted hard drives, crushed sim cards and blackberries, as well as many other obstructions the killary camp engaged in with doj collusion. And then there's the foreign collusion between a sitting and campaigning president with the top leadership of Russia live on camera.

    While all of that is true it has no bearing on the finding of contempt of Congress. The point of what I was trying to show was what contempt of Congress is actually, vice what the Democrats are trying to push now.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltorlo64 View Post
    While all of that is true it has no bearing on the finding of contempt of Congress. The point of what I was trying to show was what contempt of Congress is actually, vice what the Democrats are trying to push now.
    They know their crimes are going to be exposed, hence they are trying to press fake charges on Barr in hopes they can smear him like they did Trump. Nadler's son is a lawyer in a group suing the Trump admin, no conflict of interest at all.






    Jim Jordan Brilliantly Recaps Political Motives of Jerry Nadler to Impeach AG Bill Barr…
    During the House Judiciary Committee farce debate toward a pre-written impeachment resolution, Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan outlines the political motives of House democrats to try and avoid the looming investigation by Attorney General Bill Barr.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-ag-bill-barr/
    Last edited by 5.56NATO; 05-08-2019 at 03:52 PM.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”
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    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    If I read it correctly, the information Barr refuses to release would be illegal to release. Grand Jury testimony is confidential and must stay that way.

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by imanaknut View Post
    If I read it correctly, the information Barr refuses to release would be illegal to release. Grand Jury testimony is confidential and must stay that way.
    Not only that, but the Dims are the ones who passed legislation to prevent any future AG from giving this info to Congress. They did that after Clinton was impeached. They wanted to make sure that no future AG would be able to share the info an investigation uncovered and expose the Pres. to bad publicity or indictments.

    It's interesting how karma just keeps catching up with the Dimocrats.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.56NATO View Post
    They know their crimes are going to be exposed, hence they are trying to press fake charges on Barr in hopes they can smear him like they did Trump. Nadler's son is a lawyer in a group suing the Trump admin, no conflict of interest at all.






    Jim Jordan Brilliantly Recaps Political Motives of Jerry Nadler to Impeach AG Bill Barr…
    During the House Judiciary Committee farce debate toward a pre-written impeachment resolution, Ohio Rep. Jim Jordan outlines the political motives of House democrats to try and avoid the looming investigation by Attorney General Bill Barr.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-ag-bill-barr/
    I personally believe that this is pay back for finding AG Holder in contempt of Congress. Of course the big difference is that AG Holder actually did something wrong where as AG Barr has been placed in a Catch-22. If he gives the information he is breaking the law and can be fined, if he doesn't give the information he is found in contempt by a radical party set on vengeance.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltorlo64 View Post
    I personally believe that this is pay back for finding AG Holder in contempt of Congress. Of course the big difference is that AG Holder actually did something wrong where as AG Barr has been placed in a Catch-22. If he gives the information he is breaking the law and can be fined, if he doesn't give the information he is found in contempt by a radical party set on vengeance.
    But, doesn't being placed in contempt of Congress actually amount to nothing. Being in contempt places no legal ramifications of the one held in contempt, right? Or am I wrong about this?

    I mean, Holder wasn't removed from office or put in jail....he was just said to be in contempt and that was that.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    But, doesn't being placed in contempt of Congress actually amount to nothing. Being in contempt places no legal ramifications of the one held in contempt, right? Or am I wrong about this?

    I mean, Holder wasn't removed from office or put in jail....he was just said to be in contempt and that was that.
    Except in pride and in politics. AG Holder is the only AG to be held in contempt of Congress. This is a stain even if legally and physically it means nothing. It is like President Clinton being impeached. There are no ramifications for being impeached if the Senate does not find you guilty, but it is a stain that must be avenged.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltorlo64 View Post
    Except in pride and in politics. AG Holder is the only AG to be held in contempt of Congress. This is a stain even if legally and physically it means nothing. It is like President Clinton being impeached. There are no ramifications for being impeached if the Senate does not find you guilty, but it is a stain that must be avenged.
    The Dims hold a "stain" in the same way you would hold a Medal of Honor. It is an honor to them (unless you are a Republican and get one, then it means you're worth vilifying in every way possible). If you're a Dimocrat, then you are esteemed above all others.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    "Never say, "gun control" but instead say, "victim disarmament." - L Neil Smith

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    The Dims hold a "stain" in the same way you would hold a Medal of Honor. It is an honor to them (unless you are a Republican and get one, then it means you're worth vilifying in every way possible). If you're a Dimocrat, then you are esteemed above all others.
    In some ways yes. But in the case of contempt and impeachment it shows that they really did do something that would undermine the US. While this is their goal (in President Obama's words "fundamentally transforming the United States", or in other words, ignoring and doing away with the Constitution) they hate it when their objective is laid bare as there are many Democrats that want more liberal programs but they want them within the confines of the Constitution.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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