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Thread: The Myth of Impartial Jurors

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    The Myth of Impartial Jurors

    Democrats have recently tried to make a big deal out of Senator McConnel’s stating that he is not an impartial juror. What people fail to realize is that none of us, when called to jury duty, are supposed to be impartial jurors. Our legal system is based on the principle that someone is innocent until proven guilty. This principle is the reason for the 5th Amendment that protects us from self-incrimination. It is also the reason why we have trials by juries and to be found guilty a unanimous decision is required. It is also found in the 14th Amendment’s requirement of equal protection under the law and it is the underlying principle of “due process”.

    What innocent until proven guilty means is that we assume everyone accused of a crime did not do it. The government has the responsibility to provide evidence that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that our assumption is wrong. It is not enough for the government to come in and say, this person committed a crime, trust us, they must provide evidence of a crime and that the accused performed the criminal act. If they cannot do this then we go with our assumption that the accused was innocent.

    How does this affect juries? The jury is, theoretically, predisposed to believe the accused is innocent of the crime they are being tried for. The jury is supposed to be open minded and faithfully consider the evidence, but if no or weak evidence is provided of guilt, the defendant, without providing any defense, should be found not guilty.

    We are losing this understanding, especially in the more liberal minds of our country. We can see this when a person is accused of something and people clamor for a trial so justice (defined as a conviction) can be obtained. It is not justice when guilt is predetermined, that is a kangaroo court. We see the same thing in the Democrats attitude and actions with regards to President Trump. First, they know he has broken the law and if they could just get access to all areas of his life they could find out what that law was and convict him for it. Next is the way Speaker Pelosi has tried to force rules on the Senate for impeachment to ensure he is found guilty. These actions go against the basic principle of innocent until proven guilty. And this is why Senator McConnel’s statement that he is not an impartial jurist is not the miscarriage of justice that Democrats and most of the media would have us believe. And why Speaker Pelosi's position, is.
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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    As far as I know, the Senate and House have two, non-overlapping duties; the House impeaches the person, and the Senate tries the person.

    The House has NO say in how the Senate conducts their part of the process and vice-a-versa.

    However, I keep hearing, on the news, how Pelosi is doing her best to intimidate the Senate into doing the trial her way.

    Why doesn't McConnell just tell her to STFU and get out of the way? Her job is done and is out of her hands now.

    Let the Senate do their job without any interference from the House. They've screwed this up enough already....
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    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    Pelosi is definitely trying to impart her will illegally on the Senate. She also is proud that she is holding Trump to the constitution. What a hypocrite! After she totally stomps all over the constitution, suddenly she is pressed to hold Trump up to standards she believe she is above? Where is the anger over her words today?

    And per the thread, wannabe queen Nancy believes Trump to be guilty before the trial.

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    Why doesn't McConnell just tell her to STFU and get out of the way? Her job is done and is out of her hands now.

    Let the Senate do their job without any interference from the House. They've screwed this up enough already....
    From what I have been reading and hearing this is exactly what McConnel has been doing and one of the biggest reasons that Pelosi took so long to deliver the articles to the Senate.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

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    Senior Member BISHOP's Avatar

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    You have heard the House keep saying "WE want a fair trail".

    I do believe that its the ACCUSED that is the one that deserves the fair trial.


    BISHOP

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    Senior Member JTHunter's Avatar

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    "Fair trial"??
    From WHOSE point of view?!?
    “I have little patience with people who take the Bill of Rights for granted. The Bill of Rights, contained in the first ten amendments to the Constitution, is every American’s guarantee of freedom.” - - President Harry S. Truman, “Years of Trial and Hope”

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BISHOP View Post
    You have heard the House keep saying "WE want a fair trail".

    I do believe that its the ACCUSED that is the one that deserves the fair trial.


    BISHOP
    Exactly, which is why our justice system is built around innocent until proven guilty.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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    Administrator Krupski's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltorlo64 View Post
    Exactly, which is why our justice system is built around innocent until proven guilty.
    Most jurors are not aware of the concept of jury nullification. Moreover, judges instruct the jury that they "must" base their decision on the law.

    Lastly, I don't like the phrase "innocent until proven guilty". "Until" makes it sound like guilt will be proven sooner or later.

    The phrase should be "innocent UNLESS proven guilty".

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    Team Gunsnet Platinum 06/2016 ltorlo64's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krupski View Post
    Most jurors are not aware of the concept of jury nullification. Moreover, judges instruct the jury that they "must" base their decision on the law.
    I had not thought of that, but that is a very good point.

    Lastly, I don't like the phrase "innocent until proven guilty". "Until" makes it sound like guilt will be proven sooner or later.

    The phrase should be "innocent UNLESS proven guilty".
    I like it. I will revise my base document to use those words. I think, as you point out, it much better makes the point that innocence is assume, guilt has to be proven.
    "Nothing ever gets so bad that government "help" can't make it worse." Pat Garrett, March 22, 2014

    "HATE IS GOOD, WHEN ITS DIRECTED AT EVIL." PROBASCO, April 20, 2012

    I tried to push the envelope, but found that it was stationery.

    Have you heard about the new corduroy pillows? They're making head lines!

    NRA Endowment Member

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