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Thread: The Ukraine - Some History

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    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    The Ukraine - Some History

    Some history on Ukraine and what has led to this point...

    During the Russian commie revolution, the reorganization under Stalin (farm communes) resulted in massive food shortages in Russia, so Stalin stole the majority of Ukraine's food, resulting in millions of starvation deaths in the Ukraine. Stalin later began a resettlement program to place Russians throughout the eastern provinces of Ukraine.

    Fast forward to the 90s and the fall of the Soviet Union...Ukraine becomes a separate country from the USSR, but most of eastern Ukraine is now, ethnically, majority Russian. That portion of the country wanted to remain part of Russia, particularly the Donbas region (Donetsk and Luhansk). Since then, pro-Russian groups have been fighting Kyiv for the right to be either independent, or to join with Russia...Kyiv battling with them to force them to remain part of Ukraine. Intermittent shelling across borders, incursions by both sides, frequent skirmishes have occurred since.

    Fast forward to 2014/2015 and the Minsk Agreements. A cease fire and withdrawal of all forces by both sides (Ukraine and Russia) in the Donbas region is negotiated, with one of the conditions being that Donetsk and Luhansk are allowed to hold local elections to decide whether to be part of Russia, Ukraine, or independent. Ukraine has not allowed those elections to be held.

    Hence the skirmishes, intermittent shelling, etc. have continued, bringing us to where we are today. Russia sees itself as protecting a primarily Russian population (thanks to Stalin) from Ukraine's frequent shelling etc., Ukraine wants to keep those regions part of Ukraine.

    Here's where the sleight of hand comes in, on the part of the Great Reset. The covid narrative/terror campaign was dying...a pivot was required. The west is drowning in debt with no intention of ever paying it off...these nimrods in charge of the EU, UK, US and Canada know their wealth and power is at extreme risk of coming down around their ears...and what do countries in severe financial distress do to prop themselves up, why, start a war! Governments are never overthrown when they are at war. The west needs this war in order to default on their debts...wartime puts all options on the table, including rounding people up in their own countries who don't see eye to eye with the planned default...hell, it's not the politicians kids dying in such wars, it's your kids and grandkids, and if you think the western governments give a shit about your kids and grandkids, I've got some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you...fire sale prices.

    There is a simple solution to this conflict...allow Donetsk and Luhansk to hold their local elections, determine their own fate. Ukraine will not allow this, Russia is protecting their own people. Think for a moment...Zelensky has been passing out rifles to any willing citizen willing to fight. If you've never been military, how long do you think you'd last against a professional army? Zelensky has been calling on anyone and everyone to come to his aid, to fight for two regions who want their own determination, which could end all this. Hell, Zelensky was a standup comedian before he was propped up by the west and elected as Ukraine's president.

    Zelensky is a pawn for the west, willing to potentially destroy his own country and bring on WWIII, all for what? To deny two provinces the right of self-determination...something they'd already agreed to in the Minsk accords? If this ploy succeeds, the west get the war they wanted, and the cover to pass drastic new restrictions upon their own populaces (think Patriot Act after 9/11...think the Japanese internment) and the Great Reset likely depopulates great portions of the planet.

    Putin is being very smart about this. While he is taking losses, he's only sent about 30% of his massed forces in...he doesn't want a blitzkrieg with massive deaths. He's surrounding the major Ukrainian cities with the intent to use essentially medieval siege tactics to get Ukrainian capitulation. He has no desire to go door-to-door with combat...no desire to cause massive civilian casualties...that all plays into the west's propaganda war to stage WWIII.

    There is much more in the geopolitical machinations involved...if interested let me know and I can elaborate more fully, but suffice it to say, Putin/Russia is not the bad guy here...he's actually trying to prevent this from becoming a wider conflict that plays into the west's deepest desires.
    Last edited by Oswald Bastable; 03-02-2022 at 11:42 AM.
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    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    So if it's all about those two regions why not just send troops there and seize them, then hold the elections?

    The rest of the world probably wouldn't have batted an eyelash if he had simply sent in troops and left it at that, but instead he invades all of Ukraine.

    A big part of it is he doesn't want NATO on his doorstep and the only way to prevent that is take over Ukraine and install a puppet regime he controls.

    If he's such a mastermind why let himself play right into the hands of the corrupt western govts and give them exactly what they wanted?
    Last edited by weevil; 03-02-2022 at 11:24 PM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

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    Administrator imanaknut's Avatar

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    Actually I believe Putin is suffering from a similar brain issue that is affecting our idiot in charge, just at an earlier stage.

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    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Tell you one thing....this sure played right into the hands of the Dems and the MSM.

    They were on the ropes taking a beating over inflation, gas prices, out of control crime.....and now..A WAR!!!


    How convenient.




    Maybe they are all in cahoots!!!
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

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    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    Tell you one thing....this sure played right into the hands of the Dems and the MSM.

    They were on the ropes taking a beating over inflation, gas prices, out of control crime.....and now..A WAR!!!


    How convenient.




    Maybe they are all in cahoots!!!
    Never let a good crisis go to waste.
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    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    So if it's all about those two regions why not just send troops there and seize them, then hold the elections?

    The rest of the world probably wouldn't have batted an eyelash if he had simply sent in troops and left it at that, but instead he invades all of Ukraine.

    A big part of it is he doesn't want NATO on his doorstep and the only way to prevent that is take over Ukraine and install a puppet regime he controls.

    If he's such a mastermind why let himself play right into the hands of the corrupt western govts and give them exactly what they wanted?
    Then Ukraine moves in and it becomes a wider war anyway...and because he doesn't want NATO on his doorstep.

    He knows the west has already fallen from within, that it's only a matter of time before it implodes. Ultimately, taking Ukraine helps him more than it helps the flailing and faltering west.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

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    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    An excellent primer and analysis of the Ukraine situation with links to multiple outside sources:

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/w...he-real-story/
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    Tell you one thing....this sure played right into the hands of the Dems and the MSM.

    They were on the ropes taking a beating over inflation, gas prices, out of control crime.....and now..A WAR!!!


    How convenient.




    Maybe they are all in cahoots!!!


    The Great Reset has a definite plan...and the steps have been published...

    Perhaps we should just start calling conspiracy theories...spoiler alerts.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

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    Team GunsNet Platinum 02/2015 davepool's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    https://www.google.com/search?q=aree...ckPIPuZGQ0AM15

    I had a history teacher in high school (1969) who was a retired Lt.Col. in the army, he told a few of us that by the time we were his age the US and the USSR would flip politically and ideologically; don't think russia is quite there yet, but we're starting to look like the old ussr

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