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Thread: Another Russian ship hit?

  1. #41
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Here's a review of the author's book and a little biography on him: https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-r...erican-empire/
    A Moscow based commentator for a Russian TV show....yeah gee no chance at all he's biased or spreading Russian propaganda.....ooookay.

    Again you show your naivety of the history of that region. All that region east of the Donbas River was part of Russia for centuries until the breakup of the Soviet Union when for some reason the borders were redrawn to add that area to Ukraine.
    And how does that justify an attack on Ukraine....why not just seize the Donbas and call it good?

    I will infer here that you've not examined any of the treaties I mentioned, nor have you done any research into the WEF, its aims, goals and agenda. Since you know little of the history or politics involved, it seems fruitless to continue any semblance of discussion with you.
    Actually I did the WEF is some corporate group that thinks we'd all be better off if corporations ran the world and none of the treaties I looked at give Russia permission to invade it's neighbors


    I must also infer that you've done no research on the low grade civil war the Ukrainians have been waging on the Donbas region for the last decade.
    Yeah and how does this justify an invasion of Ukraine??

    But hey...you are starting to sound a lot like Adam Schiff.
    Resorting to personal attacks....so does that mean you don't have a leg to stand on?
    Last edited by weevil; 05-19-2022 at 01:34 PM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  2. #42
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    A Moscow based commentator for a Russian TV show....yeah gee no chance at all he's biased or spreading Russian propaganda.....ooookay.
    So your only sources of info on the conflict are...what...CNN? MSLSD? No sources from the other side allowed to be taken into context? Of the "I've made up my mind (such as it is) and nothing to the contrary, no matter how rational, will dissuade me from my faith" sort of evangelical position?


    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    And how does that justify an attack on Ukraine....why not just seize the Donbas and call it good?
    Which part of "low grade civil war" was lost on you...apart from your bias? But, if we're lucky (and by 'we' I mean the world) that will be where this all pans out. Russia has the Donbas back, some new accord with the west is agreed to as to NATO/EU reach...things ratchet down...don't plan on it though...it's not in the current mission design.

    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    Actually I did the WEF is some corporate group that thinks we'd all be better off if corporations ran the world and none of the treaties I looked at give Russia permission to invade it's neighbors
    WEF - Dig Deeper...if you've the ability to actually research a subject.

    Those treaties give Russia every right to protect their sovereignty, just as our own ignored laws give us the right to protect our own territorial sovereignty.


    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    Yeah and how does this justify an invasion of Ukraine??
    Gee...let's put it in terms even a moron may be able to understand. You're a fairly normal family...some of you are reasonably good folk, some are a bit sketchy, some are downright scary. There's another, similar family down the street, who's taken a dislike to yours, reason not important. Said family down the street makes it a mission to make your life miserable. How long before you say enough is enough?

    Russia has said "enough". Enough of NATO encroachment on our borders...enough of our people being killed in a civil war being waged in silence. My GOD MAN!!! Are you really that fucking dense????


    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    Resorting to personal attacks....so does that mean you don't have a leg to stand on?
    That was not a personal attack my friend. That was a resoundingly accurate comparison. It's the shrillness...don't ya know...
    Last edited by Oswald Bastable; 05-19-2022 at 03:06 PM.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  3. #43
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    So your only sources of info on the conflict are...what...CNN? MSLSD? No sources from the other side allowed to be taken into context? Of the "I've made up my mind (such as it is) and nothing to the contrary, no matter how rational, will dissuade me from my faith" sort of evangelical position?
    Like I said in the first place "Russian propaganda" if you have faith in it I'm happy for you. But you seemed to imply it was some reliable and trustworthy source which it isn't.




    Which part of "low grade civil war" was lost on you...apart from your bias? But, if we're lucky (and by 'we' I mean the world) that will be where this all pans out. Russia has the Donbas back, some new accord with the west is agreed to as to NATO/EU reach...things ratchet down...don't plan on it though...it's not in the current mission design.
    Yes I suspect this is what will happen....rather foolish of Putin not to just do it in the first place.


    WEF - Dig Deeper...if you've the ability to actually research a subject.
    Now now temper temper.

    Those treaties give Russia every right to protect their sovereignty, just as our own ignored laws give us the right to protect our own territorial sovereignty.
    Well thats a pretty broad interpretation...but yeah might makes right I suppose.



    Gee...let's put it in terms even a moron may be able to understand. You're a fairly normal family...some of you are reasonably good folk, some are a bit sketchy, some are downright scary. There's another, similar family down the street, who's taken a dislike to yours, reason not important. Said family down the street makes it a mission to make your life miserable. How long before you say enough is enough?

    Russia has said "enough". Enough of NATO encroachment on our borders...enough of our people being killed in a civil war being waged in silence. My GOD MAN!!! Are you really that fucking dense????
    And does your brain dead ass actually think you can just take the law into your own hands??? You better wake the fuck up before your ass ends up in prison or dead. Gotta wonder who the real problem is if everyone in the neighborhood except some weird chinese guy thinks you're the asshole.



    That was not a personal attack my friend. That was a resoundingly accurate comparison. It's the shrillness...don't ya know...
    Whatever you ruskie stooge....keep spouting their propaganda and believing it likes it's the gospel. Just don't expect me to believe your bullshit without question.....ain't gonna happen.
    Last edited by weevil; 05-19-2022 at 06:40 PM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  4. #44
    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2015 Nobeard's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    You're a fairly normal family...some of you are reasonably good folk,
    You and I have obviously never met.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    some are a bit sketchy,
    Okay, getting warmer....


    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    some are downright scary.
    aaaand BINGO!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    There's another, similar family down the street,
    NOT any more there aint





    Whoops Did I interrupt a pissing contest?

    Apologies Gentlemen!

    (grabs a bag of popcorn and a soda)

    By all means, please continue.


  5. #45
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    And does your brain dead ass actually think you can just take the law into your own hands??? You better wake the fuck up before your ass ends up in prison or dead. Gotta wonder who the real problem is if everyone in the neighborhood except some weird chinese guy thinks you're the asshole.

    That was what's known as an analogy...but I guess it went right over your head.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  6. #46
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    That was what's known as an analogy...but I guess it went right over your head.
    Yeah didn't you notice the weird Chinese guy part??

    An analogy for Putin being tried for war crimes or assassinated....but I guess that went over your head, smartguy.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  7. #47
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    Yeah didn't you notice the weird Chinese guy part??

    An analogy for Putin being tried for war crimes or assassinated....but I guess that went over your head, smartguy.
    I generally ignore attempts at racism.

    And trust me, you do not want any of the 2nd tier below Putin replacing him....unless you absolutely want this conflict to go nuclear, because they won't hesitate to vaporize Kiev..
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  8. #48
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    I generally ignore attempts at racism.

    And trust me, you do not want any of the 2nd tier below Putin replacing him....unless you absolutely want this conflict to go nuclear, because they won't hesitate to vaporize Kiev..
    What we want and what we get are two different things....latest propaganda from the west is saying Putin is firing his top generals.

    If true how long before they stage a coup to save themselves from his wrath?

    History is a fine thing to study but it cannot predict the future. We have no way of knowing for sure how this will play out in the here and now....all we can hope for is the mushroom clouds don't start to bloom.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  9. #49
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    What we want and what we get are two different things....latest propaganda from the west is saying Putin is firing his top generals.

    If true how long before they stage a coup to save themselves from his wrath?

    History is a fine thing to study but it cannot predict the future. We have no way of knowing for sure how this will play out in the here and now....all we can hope for is the mushroom clouds don't start to bloom.
    Which brings to mind a quote posted yesterday by Robert Heinlein: "A generation which ignores history has no past -- and no future."

    We have hundreds of examples of how this could play out...all from history. Ignore them at your peril.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  10. #50
    Guns Network Lifetime Member #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobeard View Post
    You and I have obviously never met.



    Okay, getting warmer....



    aaaand BINGO!!!



    NOT any more there aint





    Whoops Did I interrupt a pissing contest?

    Apologies Gentlemen!

    (grabs a bag of popcorn and a soda)

    By all means, please continue.

    Haha I like this post!

  11. #51
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Which brings to mind a quote posted yesterday by Robert Heinlein: "A generation which ignores history has no past -- and no future."

    We have hundreds of examples of how this could play out...all from history. Ignore them at your peril.
    "Hundreds of examples"

    So which one is the correct scenario, smartguy???
    Last edited by weevil; 05-20-2022 at 12:06 PM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  12. #52
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    "Hundreds of examples"

    So which one is the correct scenario, smartguy???
    Shall we start with "Weapons of mass destruction"? GW''s recent gaff was splendid irony.

    How about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that gave us 50,000 dead, with President Johnson having declared "For all I know, they were shooting at whales out there!"?

    How about the Reichstag fire that propelled Hitler to power and set the stage for WWII?

    How about the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand...which spiraled into the war to end all wars?

    How about the yellow journalism between Hearst and Pulitzer that propelled us into the Spanish American War? Bet you didn't know that the Pulitzer Prize was named for a man who lied to sell papers, and in the process propelled the US to yet another needless war...

    Shall I go on? I can go all the way back to Peloponnesian times...

    The false flag is coming...and then it's on...
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  13. #53
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Shall we start with "Weapons of mass destruction"? GW''s recent gaff was splendid irony.

    How about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that gave us 50,000 dead, with President Johnson having declared "For all I know, they were shooting at whales out there!"?

    How about the Reichstag fire that propelled Hitler to power and set the stage for WWII?

    How about the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand...which spiraled into the war to end all wars?

    How about the yellow journalism between Hearst and Pulitzer that propelled us into the Spanish American War? Bet you didn't know that the Pulitzer Prize was named for a man who lied to sell papers, and in the process propelled the US to yet another needless war...

    Shall I go on? I can go all the way back to Peloponnesian times...

    The false flag is coming...and then it's on...
    And which one of those gives us the correct ending of how this plays out here and now?

    Is it a long slog like Vietnam and he goes away in disgrace like Johnson?

    Is he victorious like Uncle Joe?

    Or is he Hitler in the bunker but pushing a red button?

    Come on smartguy....predict the future for us.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  14. #54
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    I believe the ending of each resulted in war and death to varying levels of monstrosity...what does that tell you?

    I'm incapable of predicting the the future, only pointing out possible futures based on the past...though Socrates is (note: not the philosopher) and those futures are looking particularly bleak...

    But, since you're completely swayed by the current Russia, Russia, Russia propaganda, here's another perspective from the other side:

    https://www.rt.com/news/555356-hatre...-mcdonalds-us/

    I'm sure you'll discount it as it fits your vehemence to a T...you've been most steadfast in your adherence to the neo-con narrative...more power to you in your delusions.

    If you ever decide to attempt some ratiocination...let me know...be happy to teach you some of the precepts of reasoning and logic...

    Or would that be lost on you?
    Last edited by Oswald Bastable; 05-20-2022 at 12:40 PM.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  15. #55
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    I'm incapable of predicting the the future, only pointing out possible futures based on the past...though Socrates is (note: not the philosopher) and those futures are looking particularly bleak...

    But, since you're completely swayed by the current Russia, Russia, Russia propaganda, here's another perspective from the other side:

    https://www.rt.com/news/555356-hatre...-mcdonalds-us/

    I'm sure you'll discount it as it fits your vehemence to a T...you've been most steadfast in your adherence to the neo-con narrative...more power to you in your delusions.

    If you ever decide to attempt some ratiocination...let me know...be happy to teach you some of the precepts of reasoning and logic...

    Or would that be lost on you?
    You already posted that.....remember he's the Moscow based commentator for a Russian TV show.

    Sorry I'm not as interested in Russian propaganda mouthpieces as you are.
    Last edited by weevil; 05-20-2022 at 12:44 PM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  16. #56
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    You already posted that.....remember he's the Moscow based commentator for a Russian TV show.

    Sorry I'm not as interested in Russian propaganda mouthpieces as you are.
    Err...just went back...you are correct...bad job by me.

    And yes, I know...you're only interested in the propaganda you approve of.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  17. #57
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Err...just went back...you are correct...bad job by me.

    And yes, I know...you're only interested in the propaganda you approve of.
    I'm actually interested in all propaganda.....I'm just not a damn fool who actually believes it and gets duped into thinking it's the truth.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  18. #58
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    I'm actually interested in all propaganda.....I'm just not a damn fool who actually believes it and gets duped into thinking it's the truth.
    That is either a misstatement, or a flat out lie.

    You are parroting all the western propaganda. Perhaps you are doing it for a reason, perhaps you don't even realize you are doing it. And you refuse to even accept there may be any other side to the story, even when presented with cogent arguments and documents that refute the propaganda you espouse. You've yet to provide a single argument in favor of your position, other than western propaganda.

    I've provided historical context, pointed to international treaties that bear on the subject, alternate views of the conflict.

    This suggests one of two things...you're are either an imbecile, or you have an agenda.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  19. #59
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Hmmm...who'd a thunk it...

    https://responsiblestatecraft.org/20...an-propaganda/

    A salient opening salvo, and more sobering opinion:

    Propaganda, American Style

    Here’s a joke I recently heard a Russian tell:

    A Russian is on an airliner heading to the US, and the American in the seat next to him asks, “So what brings you to the US?” The Russian replies, “I’m studying the American approach to propaganda.” The American says, “What propaganda?” The Russian says, “That’s what I mean.”

    If you don’t get the point, I can help. A few weeks before I heard this joke, I heard a Russian make the point explicitly: Yes, Russia’s state-controlled media is full of propaganda, but at least most Russians are aware of that and take the prevailing narrative with a grain of salt; Americans, in contrast, seem unaware that their own prevailing narratives are slanted.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

  20. #60
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    As to rooskiss losing another ship, read today the marionette regime has included antiship missiles and launch systems in the latest 1billion graft I mean gift to ulraine.
    "And how we burned in the camps later thinking, what would things have been like, if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain, whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?"

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