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Thread: Alec Baldwin Charged

  1. #1
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Alec Baldwin Charged

    Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. I love his excuses and, like any true Commucrat, he tries to shift the blame to someone else.

    After all, all he did was point the gun at Hutchins and cock the hammer...but he didn't pull the trigger, so it wasn't his fault.

    Poor guy.

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    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

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    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    He's a good little commucrat lunatic. Nothing will come of it, rather like 0'biden's classified documents, already dismissed even though there was no way said docs could have been declassified, while it's obvious Trump's docs could have.

    We're in never, never land now my friend...where some animals are more equal than others.

    Hie ye to the back of the bus, do not drink from those water fountains, and, for God's sake, do not even think of eating in their restaurants...
    Last edited by Oswald Bastable; 01-19-2023 at 02:56 PM.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  3. #3
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Yeah it's nice to see them going through the motions but we all know he'll never do any time....big fine and probation is what I expect. Probably work out a nice plea deal and never even go to trial.

    Unless they feel it might be good publicity...no such thing as bad publicity. Get that name and face in the headlines...celebs love that shit.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  4. #4
    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2015 Nobeard's Avatar

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    As much as it pains me to say this: 90% of the blame probably falls on the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.

    This was a Colt single action army (SAA) revolver.
    Unlike a Python or N Frame Smith & Wesson, you can't swing open the cylinder and inspect the cartridges.
    Very unlikely he would even know how to do that in the first place.

    Also, if the trigger is depressed as the hammer is being cocked and your thumb slips? It WILL go off.
    Very unlikely Baldwin (or most people that shoot modern wheel guns and auto loaders) knew that either.

    The armorer is responsible for all firearms on the set at all times.
    She SHOULD have personally made sure it was empty or loaded with blanks when it was handed to him.

    I've heard rumors that the cast and crew members were using it for 'target practice' between takes.
    There should not have been a single round of live ammunition for a prop gun anywhere on that lot.

    The 10% that falls to Alec Baldwin?
    As the producer, it was his set so he hired Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.
    If it turns out he knew the pistol was being used for or had participated in target practice with it?
    That puts it 100% on him for negligence and reckless stupidity.

    By all accounts he's a crass, arrogant, anti-gun liberal.
    IF we start crucifying people based on their politics?
    Then nobody is going to be afforded a fair trial.

    I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but it's my view of the unfortunate incident.

  5. #5
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    The ONLY problem with your argument is that Baldwin broke the first rule of handling a gun; NEVER point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot (regardless of whether it is loaded or not.). If he hadn't broken that rule, it might have turned out to be a negligent discharge, instead of someone ending up dead.

    He's still guilty.

    Why he pointed a gun at her makes no sense at all.
    Last edited by alismith; 01-20-2023 at 06:57 PM.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    Commucrats are most efficient at converting sins and crimes to accidents or misunderstandings.-Oswald Bastable

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

    My Spirit Animal has rabies.

    I'd rather be an American than a Democrat.

    "If you can make a man afraid, you can control him" Netflix Series, The Irregulars

  6. #6
    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2015 Nobeard's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by alismith View Post
    The ONLY problem with your argument is that Baldwin broke the first rule of handling a gun; NEVER point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot (regardless of whether it is loaded or not.). If he hadn't broken that rule, it might have turned out to be a negligent discharge, instead of someone ending up dead.

    He's still guilty.

    Why he pointed a gun at her makes no sense at all.
    All completely valid points, but there's also this to consider:
    In television and films, it's often necessary to point a weapon at the camera.
    Where there's a camera there's going to be a cinematographer, and director(s), plus the stunt coordinator or 'choreographer'

    It's a visual medium; all about 'perspective' and 'capturing the vision' (in less than 165 takes, if possible).
    It's a craft! Creating scenes that are brief, fleeting moments of excitement!
    Filled, shaded and shaped with the careful nuance of emotions, to be shared with an audience and create the desired effect!
    [$$$~money money mon-ey . . . MONEY~$$$]

    Seriously though,
    After the unfortunate death of Brandon Lee, a number of safety precautions were enacted to prevent a similar occurrence.
    There is SUPPOSED to be a clear barrier such as Plexiglass or Lexan between any weapon and the camera...even during rehearsals with blanks.
    Positioning and lighting is extremely critical during filming to prevent glare or reflection as it has to be invisible, so...

    ...yea...

    Does anyone really believe that's used in every rehearsal, much less filming for scenes on the set of for John Wick or Mission Impossible?

    Then again, most members of the SAG are complete idiots with any type of weapon.
    Fuck sake - they shouldn't be allowed to have a pencil because it IS a sharp object, after all.

    Makes me wonder how well trained Alex Buttwind (sorry, couldn't resist) is on basic safety procedures such as trigger and muzzle discipline.
    That's why it's important to have competent people in charge of every aspect with a potential for injury, however slight.
    Long story short, you can't leave a child (no matter the chronological age) unattended with a toy.

    As a wise man once said: "This is a dangerous place so don't be careful, be competent."

    Check youtube, there's some videos of Keanu Reeves doing live firearms training at Taran Tactical.
    Looks like that man could actually lay down some whoop-ass if it were ever necessary.

  7. #7
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobeard View Post
    Also, if the trigger is depressed as the hammer is being cocked and your thumb slips? It WILL go off.
    Very unlikely Baldwin (or most people that shoot modern wheel guns and auto loaders) knew that either.
    Yes but has maintained that he did NOT pull the trigger.......said it right on national TV.....if the trigger was "depressed" then he pulled the trigger.

    Plus what are the chances of doing that accidentally.....could happen, but far more likely he cocked the hammer, aimed and pulled the trigger...probably just being a smartass or flirting with the gal, thinking it was blanks.

    The FBI tested the gun and there is nothing wrong with it and they concluded there was no way the gun could fire without the trigger being pulled.

    Was he 100% to blame...no...did his unsafe gun handling and negligent behavior kill someone...well we're gonna see what the law says....but you know I think.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  8. #8
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobeard View Post
    All completely valid points, but there's also this to consider:
    In television and films, it's often necessary to point a weapon at the camera.
    Where there's a camera there's going to be a cinematographer, and director(s), plus the stunt coordinator or 'choreographer'

    It's a visual medium; all about 'perspective' and 'capturing the vision' (in less than 165 takes, if possible).
    It's a craft! Creating scenes that are brief, fleeting moments of excitement!
    Filled, shaded and shaped with the careful nuance of emotions, to be shared with an audience and create the desired effect!
    [$$$~money money mon-ey . . . MONEY~$$$]

    Seriously though,
    After the unfortunate death of Brandon Lee, a number of safety precautions were enacted to prevent a similar occurrence.
    There is SUPPOSED to be a clear barrier such as Plexiglass or Lexan between any weapon and the camera...even during rehearsals with blanks.
    Positioning and lighting is extremely critical during filming to prevent glare or reflection as it has to be invisible, so...

    ...yea...

    Does anyone really believe that's used in every rehearsal, much less filming for scenes on the set of for John Wick or Mission Impossible?

    Then again, most members of the SAG are complete idiots with any type of weapon.
    Fuck sake - they shouldn't be allowed to have a pencil because it IS a sharp object, after all.

    Makes me wonder how well trained Alex Buttwind (sorry, couldn't resist) is on basic safety procedures such as trigger and muzzle discipline.
    That's why it's important to have competent people in charge of every aspect with a potential for injury, however slight.
    Long story short, you can't leave a child (no matter the chronological age) unattended with a toy.

    As a wise man once said: "This is a dangerous place so don't be careful, be competent."

    Check youtube, there's some videos of Keanu Reeves doing live firearms training at Taran Tactical.
    Looks like that man could actually lay down some whoop-ass if it were ever necessary.
    I've read the Keanu is a regular participant (and winner in many of them) in 3-gun competition shoots and all the fancy gun-work he does with firearms on the set, he actually does himself. He's, truly, amazing.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    Commucrats are most efficient at converting sins and crimes to accidents or misunderstandings.-Oswald Bastable

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

    My Spirit Animal has rabies.

    I'd rather be an American than a Democrat.

    "If you can make a man afraid, you can control him" Netflix Series, The Irregulars

  9. #9
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    The FBI tested the gun and there is nothing wrong with it and they concluded there was no way the gun could fire without the trigger being pulled.

    I don't believe that's entirely true. While true if the hammer is in a fully cocked position, if he was pulling the hammer back and it slipped or was released prior to full cocked position, that would fire the cartridge as long as it was back far enough for the required force.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  10. #10
    Guns Network Lifetime Member #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobeard View Post
    As much as it pains me to say this: 90% of the blame probably falls on the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.

    This was a Colt single action army (SAA) revolver.
    Unlike a Python or N Frame Smith & Wesson, you can't swing open the cylinder and inspect the cartridges.
    Very unlikely he would even know how to do that in the first place.

    Also, if the trigger is depressed as the hammer is being cocked and your thumb slips? It WILL go off.
    Very unlikely Baldwin (or most people that shoot modern wheel guns and auto loaders) knew that either.

    The armorer is responsible for all firearms on the set at all times.
    She SHOULD have personally made sure it was empty or loaded with blanks when it was handed to him.

    I've heard rumors that the cast and crew members were using it for 'target practice' between takes.
    There should not have been a single round of live ammunition for a prop gun anywhere on that lot.

    The 10% that falls to Alec Baldwin?
    As the producer, it was his set so he hired Hannah Gutierrez-Reed.
    If it turns out he knew the pistol was being used for or had participated in target practice with it?
    That puts it 100% on him for negligence and reckless stupidity.

    By all accounts he's a crass, arrogant, anti-gun liberal.
    IF we start crucifying people based on their politics?
    Then nobody is going to be afforded a fair trial.

    I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but it's my view of the unfortunate incident.
    Disagree. You as the holder of any weapon are 100% responsible for any negligent, accidental or intentional discharge of a firearm.

  11. #11
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    Disagree. You as the holder of any weapon are 100% responsible for any negligent, accidental or intentional discharge of a firearm.
    UNLESS you're a Commucrat. They are exempt from any wrongdoing on their part. Everyone knows it's always someone else's fault.
    "Valar morghulis; valar dohaeris."

    Commucrats are most efficient at converting sins and crimes to accidents or misunderstandings.-Oswald Bastable

    Making good people helpless won't make bad people harmless.

    Freedom isn't free.

    "Attitude is the paintbrush that colors our world." TV Series, Haven.

    My Spirit Animal has rabies.

    I'd rather be an American than a Democrat.

    "If you can make a man afraid, you can control him" Netflix Series, The Irregulars

  12. #12
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Patriot-of-many View Post
    Disagree. You as the holder of any weapon are 100% responsible for any negligent or intentional discharge of a firearm.
    Fitzed it for you.

    There is no such thing as an accidental discharge...they are all negligent as each and every one results from failing to follow at least one the rules of firearm handling.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  13. #13
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    I don't believe that's entirely true. While true if the hammer is in a fully cocked position, if he was pulling the hammer back and it slipped or was released prior to full cocked position, that would fire the cartridge as long as it was back far enough for the required force.

    The SAA has "four clicks" or positions including a safety click to prevent that sort of thing from happening.


    Next comes the hammer, often posed to us regarding SAA revolvers as “how are the clicks?” These clicks (known as the “four clicks") are a distinctive set of sounds made when drawing back the hammer of the gun from the fully lowered position to the fully cocked position. If working properly, the first click should be heard when the safety notch on the hammer engages, the second click when the half-cock notch engages, the third when the SAA cylinder stop pops up to engage the notches (note: the stop pops up before the cylinder has completed its rotation, hence why partial drag lines are found even on otherwise nice SAA revolvers), and the fourth when the hammer reaches full cock and the stop drops into the appropriate cylinder notch near simultaneously.

    https://www.rockislandauction.com/ri...le-action-army



    The hammer can not slip and fire a cartridge on a properly working SAA, that is the sole purpose of the safety notch.....unless you pull the trigger.


    That's how fanning works you hold the trigger and fan the hammer with your other hand....doesn't work if you don't keep the trigger pulled.
    Last edited by weevil; 01-21-2023 at 12:56 PM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

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    Guns Network Lifetime Member #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Fitzed it for you.

    There is no such thing as an accidental discharge...they are all negligent as each and every one results from failing to follow at least one the rules of firearm handling.
    I guess we could go round and round here, but past firearms without a firing pin block of some kind certainly could fall out of a holster, guns with uncommon wear or failure could discharge and result in a ricochet or direct hit even when not aimed at someone. Rare, but certainly has happened in the past, But I agree on the whole negligent is the rule today.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    The SAA has "four clicks" or positions including a safety click to prevent that sort of thing from happening.


    Next comes the hammer, often posed to us regarding SAA revolvers as “how are the clicks?” These clicks (known as the “four clicks") are a distinctive set of sounds made when drawing back the hammer of the gun from the fully lowered position to the fully cocked position. If working properly, the first click should be heard when the safety notch on the hammer engages, the second click when the half-cock notch engages, the third when the SAA cylinder stop pops up to engage the notches (note: the stop pops up before the cylinder has completed its rotation, hence why partial drag lines are found even on otherwise nice SAA revolvers), and the fourth when the hammer reaches full cock and the stop drops into the appropriate cylinder notch near simultaneously.

    https://www.rockislandauction.com/ri...le-action-army



    The hammer can not slip and fire a cartridge on a properly working SAA, that is the sole purpose of the safety notch.....unless you pull the trigger.


    That's how fanning works you hold the trigger and fan the hammer with your other hand....doesn't work if you don't keep the trigger pulled.
    I stand corrected.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

    He, Who Will Not Reason, Is a Bigot; He, Who Cannot, Is a Fool; and He, Who Dares Not, Is a Slave. -Sir William Drummond

    There are some things I will not abide within my sight!

  16. #16
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    I stand corrected.
    If you check your hammer fired guns you'll find most of them have this first click if you pull the hammer back just slightly, unless they're using a transfer bar or other such system.

    Gunmakers have been aware of slipping hammers for a long time and have taken measures to prevent mishaps....there really is only one way for a good quality gun that's working properly, to fire.
    Last edited by weevil; 01-21-2023 at 04:32 PM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  17. #17
    Team GunsNet Platinum 02/2015 davepool's Avatar

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    I think he's a sick mother fucker(psychopath) and he did it on purpose, he's an actor, this is his greatest role; how to get away with murder and fool the idiots that made him famous
    Last edited by davepool; 01-22-2023 at 10:37 AM.

  18. #18
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Even if you believe his lie that it went off when he cocked the gun, that still doesn't excuse the fact that he was pointing a loaded gun at another human being when he cocked it.

    One of the cardinal rules of gun handling is to never point a gun at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot....he had that gun pointed right at another human being and either had his finger on the trigger when he cocked it or deliberately pulled the trigger after he cocked it.

    Either way it is his negligence that cost that woman her life and he should be punished accordingly.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  19. #19
    Senior Member tank_monkey's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    Yes but has maintained that he did NOT pull the trigger.......said it right on national TV.....if the trigger was "depressed" then he pulled the trigger.

    Plus what are the chances of doing that accidentally.....could happen, but far more likely he cocked the hammer, aimed and pulled the trigger...probably just being a smartass or flirting with the gal, thinking it was blanks.
    .
    I'm pretty sure that he depressed the trigger WHILE grabbing the revolver and 'fanned' the hammer back with his thumb. That would cause it to fire without him technically 'pulling the trigger AFTER cocking it'. But Baldwin has been on western sets before. He should know that fan firing SAAs is a thing. In fact he's fired blank firing live guns in many movies prior to this. How could he have forgotten the risks of mishandling a Single Action revolver? The biggest thing, to me though, is that he was told it was a 'cold gun' aka unloaded. The blame goes around being that actors, despite their duty to double check, should be able to trust their ADs and armorers to truthfully tell them that a weapon is unloaded before a rehearsal.

    My only litmus test is .... how would the justice system treat any of us, nobodies, if we did the same thing on a set? We'd be in jail right now.

  20. #20
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    There's plenty of blame to go around....just an avalanche of bad decisions that got somebody killed....but the real question is how did a live round get in that gun???

    Answer that and we will know if was just dumbass Hollywood types screwing up or whether it was something more sinister.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

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