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Thread: Alec Baldwin Charged

  1. #21
    Senior Member Oswald Bastable's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    If you check your hammer fired guns you'll find most of them have this first click if you pull the hammer back just slightly, unless they're using a transfer bar or other such system.

    Gunmakers have been aware of slipping hammers for a long time and have taken measures to prevent mishaps....there really is only one way for a good quality gun that's working properly, to fire.
    Pretty sure my Hi-Powers, 1911, PPK/S...even my BDA only have half and full cock.
    If we refuse to rule ourselves with reason, then we shall be ruled by our passions.

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  2. #22
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswald Bastable View Post
    Pretty sure my Hi-Powers, 1911, PPK/S...even my BDA only have half and full cock.
    The "half cock" is it....on a SA revolver the half cock is the position that allows you to rotate the cylinder...there really isn't a half cock on a pistol like the one on a revolver, it's the safety notch on the hammer.

    The first click as you pull back on the 1911 hammer and most other pistols is the safety notch that keeps it from firing if the hammer slips. Instead of falling back and hitting the firing pin it catches on that " half cock" position you're feeling.

    Some people use it as a sort of "safety" on 1911s but it's not really recommended, though the Soviets did IIRC on the Tokarev pistols as there is no other safety. Decock it and take to the safety or half cock position, the problem is if that notch gets worn doing that, there is no safety to stop the hammer if it slips.

    A lot of folks refer to it as a "half cock"....probably just a carry over from revolver days...but there really isn't any reason to "half cock" a pistol.....it's just a safety notch for a hammer slip.
    Last edited by weevil; 01-23-2023 at 12:30 AM.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  3. #23
    Senior Member tank_monkey's Avatar

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    Re the half cock. From what I recall, the gun used was an original 1800s relic that was well worn. Either way, he still may have pulled the hammer back beyond half cock when he was whipping it out to pose for the camera.

  4. #24
    Team GunsNet Bronze 07/2011 weevil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by tank_monkey View Post
    Re the half cock. From what I recall, the gun used was an original 1800s relic that was well worn. Either way, he still may have pulled the hammer back beyond half cock when he was whipping it out to pose for the camera.
    That's what the FBI was checking for...seeing if the pistol was working properly or it was worn out and the safety notch failed. They concluded it was in good condition and working properly...no way to fire without a trigger pull.
    Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket???

  5. #25
    Team GunsNet Silver 04/2015 Nobeard's Avatar

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    [Have you ever typed a reply to a thread, then wondered: Is this a good idea or a potential shit-storm? See my post #4.]
    Looks like Weevil pretty much summed up where I was trying to go with that reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by weevil View Post
    There's plenty of blame to go around....just an avalanche of bad decisions that got somebody killed....but the real question is how did a live round get in that gun???

    Here was my problem with saying Alec Baldwin is 100% responsible:
    He had every reason to believe the firearm was safe (aka 'cold gun') when it was handed to him for the rehearsal.
    One of the main reasons for having a licensed armorer in charge of all prop guns and blanks is to prevent something like this from happening.

    Most of Hollyweird's royalty have no practical experience with firearms or functional knowledge on safe handling.
    Willing to bet, as Weevil also pointed out, that Baldwin had the trigger pressed while cocking the pistol.

    Either way, Baldwin practicing his 'Quickdraw McGraw' without a Lexan barrier and people downrange is ignorant, and a possible violation of SAG guidelines, but....
    "Give a retard a calculator and he's going to try and turn on a TV with it."

    Don't like the idea of condemning someone based on their politics...even if their politics suck.
    As gun owners, we've all been subjected to that in one form or another.

    Let me explain my thought process for the original post

    First scenario:
    A vehicle is taken to a licensed mechanic at a major repair shop for brake work.
    Work is done, owner is handed the keys and told 'it's good to go' so he drives off.
    At the first red light, the pedal goes to the floor and another car is T-boned causing carnage....
    Is the driver of the car criminally or civilly responsible for the accident and by what percentage?

    Quote Originally Posted by everyone
    Apples & Oranges! False Premise!!
    How about a Second Scenario:
    Owner of a plumbing company has a licensed fleet mechanic, that he hired, on staff.
    Mechanic works on brakes then sends the truck on the road.
    Brakes fail, there's a wreck, death and mayhem ensues.
    What percentage of criminal responsibility does the business owner have?

    Quote Originally Posted by everyone
    Belches & Farts! Truck isn't a deadly weapon!! SHUT UP NOBEARD!!!
    Well...more people in America are killed by motor vehicles than guns. Every. Single. Year.
    Almost none of these accidents are the result malicious intent deliberate criminal action.
    While the Waukesha, Wisconsin incident where Darrell 'BLM' Brooks plowed into a Christmas Parade is a terrible tragedy, it represents only a tiny fraction of a percentile for the statistics. That tragedy was only compounded by the medias' desperate attempts to pin blame on the vehicle and not the driver.

    Lets look at the second scenario...
    The company owner obviously has some major civil liability.
    If he knew their fleet mechanic had been doing shoddy work and cutting corners?
    NOW we're into for potential criminal charges.

    Being the producer and director, Alec Baldwin hired the armorer and does have some responsibility.
    As I previously stated: that prop gun was being used for target practice, which means someone brought live ammo onto the lot, which is a MAJOR violation.

    If he knew this and didn't find out who it was, send them packing and shut down production until the lot was determined cleared and clean?
    He would be 100% responsible.
    Even if the weapon wasn't in his hand when the shooting occurred - it would be 100% on him.

    That being said...
    Why the HELL are they using real revolvers in the first place?

    With auto loading rifles they have a blank firing adapter which looks like a stand flash hider. It's restricted to cycle the weapon with the lower pressure blanks and would grenade the barrel if a live round was fired.

    They should have cylinders that will only hold blank cartridges for the 'flash and bang' required when filming combat and action scenes.

    Having another cylinder with blind holes that the slugs are pressed and sealed into for closeups would have prevented this.
    Might have prevented the death of Brandon Lee as well.

    With the Jon Hexam tragedy?
    Sorry, but it's really hard to prevent stupidity from cleaning up the gene pool.

    Seriously doubt this will change anyone's mind, just trying to explain my line of thinking.
    It has been a civil discussion, which is one of the reasons I love this site.
    Hopefully there are no hurt feelings as well.

  6. #26
    Team Guns Network Silver 04/2013 alismith's Avatar

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    I still say Alec Badwind is at fault. Even when someone hands me a handgun, and I see them open the cylinder and can see the gun is unloaded, then they close the cylinder back up and hand me the gun, I still open the cylinder and check for myself. Even after all that, I NEVER point that same firearm at anyone....PERIOD! Nor do I put my finger on the trigger.

    Now, I know Badwin doesn't know shit about guns, but that doesn't excuse him from pointing it a a person. Had he not pointed it at her, she's still be alive today.

    Regardless of the condition of the gun, or what he was told about the gun, it's all his fault for pointing it at her. No one forced him to point it at her. He did that all by himself.
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  7. #27
    Guns Network Lifetime Member #2

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    Perhaps all actors who touch a gun should have safety certificates from a bonifide NRA course. Still not buying any excuse Nobeard. You or me OR ANYONE would be crucified if someone handed us a gun and said it's safe and you pointed and killed someone. Because you're an actor or actress, you should have special privilege not to be liable for being too stupid or untrained to handle firearms? NOPE NOPE NOPE My friend. I don't buy it.

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