What's so bad about a welfare state?

[mriddick]

On the issue of funding:

10% tax rate on those earning over £21,000, 40% on those earning about £60,000 and 70% on those earning over £1,000,000. So for someone earning £27,000, they would take home £26,400. For someone earning £90,000 they would take home £74,100.
For someone earning £5,000,000 they would take home 1,765,000.

Also a 50% tax rate on all bonuses above £20,000 per annum.

It is a progressive method of taxation on the super rich to benefit the vulnerable.

On what do you base any of these figures?

[Arnulf]

That is "positive" discrimination for you. "Positive" my ass. You can't force equality. However, you should definitely be able to seek legal advice if you are excluded from a job or university place because of race.

That is just the way it is in this country....government sponsored racism.

[Syph]

On what do you base any of these figures?

I made them up but the first two tax brackets are based on the British tax system. If I was in charge of setting taxes, I would set them at this. The rest is mathematics.

[sevlex]

What's so bad?

Eventually you run out of other people's money....that's what's so bad.

[mriddick]

I'd rather have a tax system that is tied to the budget, whatever the budget is the tax system would be adjusted to pay for it. I would rather the tax rates be tied to each other rather then some arbitrary progressive scale.

Think of this way,
the bottom 1-10% of wage earners pay for 1% of whatever the budget is,
11-25% might pay for 5%,
26-50% would pay for 10%,
51-75 would pay for 15%,
76-90% would pay for 20%
and those on up for the rest (49%).
Every year the rate within each group would be adjusted to balance to budget.

[old Grump]

If the majority of the people can get what they want even without working for it they won't work. If a man working is supporting all those who don't work and they get the benefit of his earnings while he gets taxed more for being productive expect him to rebel, disappear into the black market economy and you wont get any more of your socialist manna from him anymore. Problem with a socialist society is there is no incentive to improve yourself because the state will take it from you and nobody gets anything. Think USSR.

[Syph]

I'd rather have a tax system that is tied to the budget, whatever the budget is the tax system would be adjusted to pay for it. I would rather the tax rates be tied to each other rather then some arbitrary progressive scale.

Think of this way,
the bottom 1-10% of wage earners pay for 1% of whatever the budget is,
11-25% might pay for 5%,
26-50% would pay for 10%,
51-75 would pay for 15%,
76-90% would pay for 20%
and those on up for the rest (49%).
Every year the rate within each group would be adjusted to balance to budget.

I like. Cut your military spending by 10-20% and you'll have enough money for universal healthcare and government reserve.

[Syph]

If the majority of the people can get what they want even without working for it they won't work. If a man working is supporting all those who don't work and they get the benefit of his earnings while he gets taxed more for being productive expect him to rebel, disappear into the black market economy and you wont get any more of your socialist manna from him anymore. Problem with a socialist society is there is no incentive to improve yourself because the state will take it from you and nobody gets anything. Think USSR.

This wouldn't fund for a majority. It would fund less than 1% of the population for their entire lives and fund the healthcare and education up to age 16 for 100% of the people. Healthcare is not food nor income, and you won't get much nutrition eating textbooks. The idea is that 99.9% of people work and pay taxes to pay for their healthcare and education. End of. If you are unemployed for more than two months you can starve.

[mriddick]

I like. Cut your military spending by 10-20% and you'll have enough money for universal healthcare and government reserve.

LOL healthcare, after years or wrangling over the issue we got a 1.1 trillion dollar system that covers a person at only $34,000 a pop. My system would allow for all the military spending as well as healthcare the people care to pay for since those programs at the moment would be paid for it on a yearly basis.

[matshock]

Welfare states are degraded and sycophantic nations- fuck that.

Yo go ahead and post statistics- all I need are the images of slovenly, angry, sterile, useless (educated or no) euro-folk protesting the end of their welfare states all over the news.

They're gonna be stitching Nikes together 18 hours a day for chicoms in another 10 years, and if we don't roll back our government soon we won't be too far behind them.

[mriddick]

I would agree the idea is not to make a welfare state but one where everyone has a stake in how taxes are raised and spent.

[old Grump]

This wouldn't fund for a majority. It would fund less than 1% of the population for their entire lives and fund the healthcare and education up to age 16 for 100% of the people. Healthcare is not food nor income, and you won't get much nutrition eating textbooks. The idea is that 99.9% of people work and pay taxes to pay for their healthcare and education. End of. If you are unemployed for more than two months you can starve.

And Social Security was a limited program to help retiree's with a small fixed income, a crutch, no more, no less and there would be a special fund set aside that wouldn't be touched for anything except payouts to the people who payed in. That worked out well didn't it? You cannot plaster numbers on paper and not take into account changing demographics, and the people factor. In this case politicians using the program to garner votes for themselves at the expense of our grandchildren. Only a damn fool would believe the program wouldn't expand into other areas and the tax to fund it would stay small and static.

[HDR]

I like. Cut your military spending by 10-20% and you'll have enough money for universal healthcare and government reserve.

That is for the moment.

AFA, "0bamacare" after you learn what is in it; very few would trust those that wrote it with anything as important as our health.

[Randomluck]

What's so bad about a welfare state?

Look around Sparky and see your answer.
In case you need a hint, everything is turning to shit from overblown social programs. Also see the other countries who tried to provide for the useless, Greece, Ireland, Spain ect.

Now get off your lazy ass and get a job and be responsible for yourself for a change.

[Richard Simmons]

I made them up but the first two tax brackets are based on the British tax system. If I was in charge of setting taxes, I would set them at this. The rest is mathematics.

And which of those brackets would you fall into?

[Moebrown20]

On the issue of funding:

10% tax rate on those earning over £21,000, 40% on those earning about £60,000 and 70% on those earning over £1,000,000. So for someone earning £27,000, they would take home £26,400. For someone earning £90,000 they would take home £74,100.
For someone earning £5,000,000 they would take home 1,765,000.

Also a 50% tax rate on all bonuses above £20,000 per annum.

It is a progressive method of taxation on the super rich to benefit the vulnerable.

What????
You mean to tell me, If I went to school and hit the books hard, got a degree, found a job and made it to the top of the ladder, I have to give you most of my money!!!

Why should I give you 50, 60, 70% of my money?
I bust my ass to get where I am, why can't you?
Because you don't feel like pushing that hard, I have to give you money, food healthcare.


If it was a shtf and you had no food what would you do? Stay home and wait for the gov to feed you or try to find/hunt for something?

[Integratedj]

Ok, you are either a completely worthless little pussy with a weeping mangina, or a troll of some sort only here to argue. Either way, you're an Asshat.
Seriously? You believe shit like this? What are you, 17-19 and know how to make the world a better place? Better stop and think it through a little further.

The Vulnerable? What to do with them??? 2 things can happen. Their Family takes care of them, or they pass on. That's it. It sounds cold, but that's life. No one that isn't my flesh and blood is my responsibility. Do I donate and try to help various charities? Absolutely, but I do it by choice, not by the force of the Government. I choose who I help based on if they are worth it or not.
We are all born equal here in America, it is our choices and our ambition that decide our futures. If some one has obviously been a worthless piece of shit their whole life, any handout from me is not going to change their thought process, it will only enable it further.
I was homeless at one time. You know what put me there? Bad fucking decisions, not "state controlled wages" or "the man" or any other self pitying bullshit. All of the guys that I lived with in that canyon? Same thing as me. Piss poor decisions throughout their lives. All of them there because of themselves. Some realize it and get out, some stay dumb as fuck and remain homeless. I have no sympathy for those that will not even try to help themselves. Fuck them, that's what death is for. Some make it, and some don't. That's the way a little game called life works. It isn't "Fair", it's Real.

I busted my ass and made good decisions and guess what... I'm no longer homeless, I'm married, have a great life, a house, a car for my wife, a bad ass truck for me, lot's of Toys and the only thing holding me back now is dumb ass mother fuckers like you sucking at the Tit of Uncle scam, draining from the rest of us through higher and higher taxation to keep up with "What is owed to people like you", and "What is only fair to take". Everything you listed requires money, and for people like you that means "Other people's Money". It's just pathetic that there are people who think that what I bleed and sweat for is theirs to take because they feel entitled to the New American dream of "Everything Free". Fuck you, Get a job and earn your dream like an American should. Otherwise, move your ass over to the European Utopia.

A house with a mortgage is not a right. If you can't afford it there's a thing called "Rent". If you can't afford that, there are things called "Room Mates". If you still can't afford it... You aren't trying. Period. No excuses. Grow a fucking nutsack and be a man already.

Wealth is not finite. You cannot look at wealth like a pie chart where some guys get a big slice and you get that little "unfair" slice because there is nothing left to go around. It doesn't work that way. Any one can have a big slice, you just have to work for it. Success in life creates wealth. It doesn't move it from one guy to the next, it grows and builds. If I do well, I in turn buy more things which makes the next guy do well. It then repeats over and over.
I am far from wealthy, and yes, I get Envious at times when I am working on really wealthy people's houses and I see an incredible car or huge gun collection etc... Do I then think of ways that the government should step in and make it "fair"? Fuck no, I think of ways that I can earn that kind of money and buy those kinds of things. I try to improve myself until I am at that level instead of coming up with ways to drag every one else down to my current level. If the Gov comes in and taxes the shit out of the wealthy in order to "Provide what's fair" to pussies like you, then guess what... The wealthy don't have the money anymore to buy as much from me, I then don't have as much money to buy from the next guy, and it keeps going like that fucking every one, except the little bitch that is sucking at the Tit still, wondering why life has been so cruel. If they fail to extend the tax cuts in january, you're going to find out exactly what I mean. It's going to fucking hurt every one.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

Given the high degree of illiterates graduating from public school would you say they're being educated to the highest level?

Obviously they are not "being educated to tehir highest level of potential".

For anyone to be given a diploma they can't read is a damn shame, and blatant evidence of a failed system. Neih, a failed society, as it is PUBLIC EDUCATION that fuelded the age of reason, and the subsequent industrial revolution, thus enableing the modern civilisation that we so cherish.

Why you would embrace such failure as the status quo, instead of supporting the use of taxes to turn that trend around is completely beyond me.

[Tx Dogblaster]

This whole idea of the gov't running everything and benefiting ANYBODY other than the lowest of life forms is laughable at best. Has Syph ever BEEN to New Orleans or the South side of Chicago? If he had then he'd see exactly what gov't programs pay for. Tell us how well that shit's working in the UK? Canada? Why do people come from all over the world to use our doctors? (who came from India or some other 3rd world shit hole but that's a different rant) This is still the greatest country in the world, even as jacked up as the current regime is. If we follow the socialistic path as much of Europe has then we'll turn into Euro trash pansies too except without the European accent...

Don't know how much sense that made but this subject and illegals just piss me off... Rant Off

[TEN-32]

I'd rather have a tax system that is tied to the budget, whatever the budget is the tax system would be adjusted to pay for it. I would rather the tax rates be tied to each other rather then some arbitrary progressive scale.

Think of this way,
the bottom 1-10% of wage earners pay for 1% of whatever the budget is,
11-25% might pay for 5%,
26-50% would pay for 10%,
51-75 would pay for 15%,
76-90% would pay for 20%
and those on up for the rest (49%).
Every year the rate within each group would be adjusted to balance to budget.

Interesting. I wonder if this would produce more or less government. I wonder if we would pay more or less personal federal income tax. Don't forget about the business taxes. As to the original post...the people you are proposing to give a free college education 1. can't read and 2. would prefer an Escalade with 22" rims and a $10,000 subwoofer system and a gold grill in their face...its all about rollin dirty not learning and earning.

Fuckin dumbass.