What's so bad about a welfare state?

[TEN-32]

Obviously they are not "being educated to tehir highest level of potential".

For anyone to be given a diploma they can't read is a damn shame, and blatant evidence of a failed system. Neih, a failed society, as it is PUBLIC EDUCATION that fuelded the age of reason, and the subsequent industrial revolution, thus enableing the modern civilisation that we so cherish.

Why you would embrace such failure as the status quo, instead of supporting the use of taxes to turn that trend around is completely beyond me.

If you own a home, look at your property tax bill. Specifically, the percentage that you are paying to the school districts. It will make you truly sick to your stomach.

[Richard Simmons]

Obviously they are not "being educated to tehir highest level of potential".

For anyone to be given a diploma they can't read is a damn shame, and blatant evidence of a failed system. Neih, a failed society, as it is PUBLIC EDUCATION that fuelded the age of reason, and the subsequent industrial revolution, thus enableing the modern civilisation that we so cherish.

Why you would embrace such failure as the status quo, instead of supporting the use of taxes to turn that trend around is completely beyond me.

In case you don't know it taxes are producing those shameful results now so how will more people and more money suddenly fix what's so obvioulsy broken? Why would you embrace taking money away from anyone to give it in any form to someone else?

[HDR]

The difference is simple; you prefer what we call a nanny state and we don't want it. Now that we have settled that the next question becomes in your opinion does the government have the right to force us to accept what we don't want?

We don't see what you have working all that well; so why would anyone want it?

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

In case you don't know it taxes are producing those shameful results now so how will more people and more money suddenly fix what's so obvioulsy broken? Why would you embrace taking money away from anyone to give it in any form to someone else?

Your right. Lets just keep populating our country with succesive generations of ignorant children until your generation is completely outnumbered by violent mouth breathers. We are on the brink of that today. There is no excuse for such a thing in this country. Just because the system is shit, doesn't mean that it is foolhardy to offer higher education to our citizens. Are you seriously trying to argue that education is a waste of time, simply because is is being missmanaged right now?

We need to be producing engineers, not short order cooks. And your seriously going to come at me with "why spend money? it's done broke already..."

Is this the real Richard Simmons, or did someone hack your account? Dont take offense, but I kind of recalling you being more shrewd in the past, and not prone to the gross oversights in your arguments that you are displaying right now.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

If you own a home, look at your property tax bill. Specifically, the percentage that you are paying to the school districts. It will make you truly sick to your stomach.

Only because they rubber stamp morons that they were suposed to be turing into functional thinking adults.

[Richard Simmons]

Your right. Lets just keep populating our country with succesive generations of ignorant children until your generation is completely outnumbered by violent mouth breathers. We are on the brink of that today. There is no excuse for such a thing in this country. Just because the system is shit, doesn't mean that it is foolhardy to offer higher education to our citizens. Are you seriously trying to argue that education is a waste of time, simply because is is being missmanaged right now?

We need to be producing engineers, not short order cooks. And your seriously going to come at me with "why spend money? it's done broke already..."

Is this the real Richard Simmons, or did someone hack your account? Dont take offense, but I kind of recalling you being more shrewd in the past, and not prone to the gross oversights in your arguments that you are displaying right now.

No it's me we're not talking about spending money, we're talking about taking money from Americans who work for a living and using it to provide free college to others. Colleges dominated by liberal. leftist idealogs by the way.

Why not fix the problems with public school which is tax payer funded? You call them "gross oversights" because they don't agree with your ideology. May I ask, are you going to college or planning on going? In which of the OP's tax brackets would you be in? You also live in California IIRC which would explain the difference in mindset as well as our age difference. If you'd like to give up a much larger portion of you paycheck to pay for other peoples college feel free, curious how much extra a month you'll be letting go of? For me, I'd like to keep more of what I earn, not less.

[Richard Simmons]

Only because they rubber stamp morons that they were suposed to be turing into functional thinking adults.

So are you a home owner and do you pay taxes into the school system?

[Richard Simmons]

We need to be producing engineers, not short order cooks. And your seriously going to come at me with "why spend money? it's done broke already..."
.

So if everyone is an engineer we'll no longer need short order cooks, or firemen or bank tellers or..................................please. Where is your motivation really coming from, it sure isn't the betterment of mankind though education.

[mriddick]

Interesting. I wonder if this would produce more or less government. I wonder if we would pay more or less personal federal income tax. Don't forget about the business taxes. As to the original post...the people you are proposing to give a free college education 1. can't read and 2. would prefer an Escalade with 22" rims and a $10,000 subwoofer system and a gold grill in their face...its all about rollin dirty not learning and earning.

Fuckin dumbass.

Again nothing is free, there simply can't be a free college education. If people are propsing a free education system then they are proposing something that can't be done.

[matshock]

So if everyone is an engineer we'll no longer need short order cooks, or firemen or bank tellers or..................................please. Where is your motivation really coming from, it sure isn't the betterment of mankind though education.

Even worse that that- someone with an expensive engineering degree that cleans pools because all the engineering jobs got outsourced to Dubai.

my BIL is an electrical engineer and he spends all day being a repair man at a microchip FAB- they've been trying to move it to China for years but haven't been able to finalize a deal yet. When they do....

[Ronwicp]

I think we spend way too much time asking "How are we going to fund XYZ?" instead of asking "Why the fuck are we funding this?"

It may sound harsh to some folks, but that just shows how soft the world has become.

Need an education, got work for it. Cant get one, go dig a ditch.
Need a house, work for it. Cant get one, live with family or friends. Dont expect me to pay for it.
Need some food, not my problem.

Now, that is not to say that I wouldn't help someone if they are in need. Hell, I do it all the time, more than most do I bet. But the difference is I do it of my own choice, I am not forced at gunpoint by the government to do it.

The idea that someone that makes more should pay higher taxes to fund this crap is just stupid. Why is he being punished for being more successful?

[HDR]

I think we spend way too much time asking "How are we going to fund XYZ?" instead of asking "Why the fuck are we funding this?"

It is the Left and the RINOs clinging to what they did wrong and isn't wanted.

The idea that someone that makes more should pay higher taxes to fund this crap is just stupid. Why is he being punished for being more successful?

That is a long way of saying 0bama's re-distribute wealth.

I already pay too much in taxes. Why do I pay too much because I am not pleased with what I get for what I am paying.

I drive by subsidized housing and think how run down it looks. In comes the Fed and spends a huge amount of money renovating and in less than a year it looks the same again. If they can not live there without trashing it, or dealing drugs etc then kick them out.

No one deserves the opportunity to own a home; they earn it same as we did.

If a person worked all their lives and then needs to go into assisted living, the government takes what they have. If they didn't work the government pays to sustain them better than those who worked. For example, the government pays for a $106 pedicure.

In America the government discriminates against the working for those who have never worked. Even if everyone has needed these benefits; IMO, unless someone is genuinely disabled no one needs these benefits their whole life!



Why are people who work discriminated against.

[MOP]

California, before the current disaster, was well known

as a very generous welfare state.

[Syph]

Yo go ahead and post statistics- all I need are the images of slovenly, angry, sterile, useless (educated or no) euro-folk protesting the end of their welfare states all over the news.

If you don't believe statistics then you have a fragile ego. What can I say? Even I hate being wrong but I change my mind, unlike most people.

Only a damn fool would believe the program wouldn't expand into other areas and the tax to fund it would stay small and static.

It's about getting the right people to government. It's not my fault people are greedy.

What's so bad about a welfare state?

Look around Sparky and see your answer.
In case you need a hint, everything is turning to shit from overblown social programs. Also see the other countries who tried to provide for the useless, Greece, Ireland, Spain ect.

Now get off your lazy ass and get a job and be responsible for yourself for a change.

And yet the UK thrives with the NHS and state schooling... the Tories are cutting the lazy cheats out of the system. It's exactly the type of welfare that should be promoted. Work, or starve...

By the way, I have a job as a dishwasher.

What????
You mean to tell me, If I went to school and hit the books hard, got a degree, found a job and made it to the top of the ladder, I have to give you most of my money!!!

The majority of rich people work hard... Really? I don't see Richard Branson and the fat cat bankers going to work at 5am. The rich don't need to work and pay themselves horrendously big salaries and bonuses. They are exploiting all those who work under their employment.

Why should I give you 50, 60, 70% of my money?
I bust my ass to get where I am, why can't you?
Because you don't feel like pushing that hard, I have to give you money, food healthcare.

Because some people are disabled and as thick as a plank. They will never be paid enough in a million years.

Also, don't you see the problem with greed of this sort? The rich should help out everybody because they are in a privileged and should contribute as such for the betterment of society itself. If they are forced to invest in the health and education of society they will improve it by leaps and bounds.

Why do people come from all over the world to use our doctors?

Your doctors are a mockery of medicine. Sure, they have the best training in the world but the system they work under in tasteless and barbaric. The USA spends 16% of GDP on medical treatments which in turn in invested into experimental treatments. They are very happy to perform expensive treatment and cripple people financially. Those coming from abroad to work there are money-grabbing loons who should stay the hell away from patients.

You have the best doctors in the world but the system in which they work is regressive.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...d-1814790.html

The difference is simple; you prefer what we call a nanny state and we don't want it.

I want a welfare state that forces everyone that can work to work. The lazy handout beggars will starve to death.

[samiam]

I think we can all agree that our tax system needs a major overhaul. What would fix it? Any proposals would be met with cheers by some jeers by others. Education? First it needs to get out of the social engineering business, get back to teaching people HOW to think rather than WHAT to think. The best historical comparison I can come up with is that public education today is much like the church was in the dark ages.

[matshock]

If you don't believe statistics then you have a fragile ego. What can I say? Even I hate being wrong but I change my mind, unlike most people.

Bullshit- people are protesting and rioting in Europe because welfare states are crumbling and their economies are collapsing because of it. Smart ass quips mean nothing and you statistics contradict plain facts.

[Richard Simmons]

Not to disparage anyone who has a job but it's interesting that a "dishwasher" has all sorts of ideas on what tax rate everyone else should be paying when it would seem a fair assumption (unless dishwashers in GB make more then they do here) the he won't be in any of the tax brackets that he's proposed.

It's always those with less that want to take from those with more rather than rise to the top, they seek to bring the top down. Given the decline of the human race it's not a surprise, just a disappointment.

[Moebrown20]

Because some people are disabled and as thick as a plank. They will never be paid enough in a million years.

Also, don't you see the problem with greed of this sort? The rich should help out everybody because they are in a privileged and should contribute as such for the betterment of society itself. If they are forced to invest in the health and education of society they will improve it by leaps and bounds.

If this was the case, then no one would strive to make it. They would just do enough to get by.
No TV, no radio, no sports no competition. Their will be no push because it would be taken away by the gov.
All the jobs would go overseas due to this tax rule, then what?

[63DH8]

Two things:
1. Nothing is for "free". Someone has to pay for it.
2. Things that are "given", are usually not appreciated and are ultimately abused.

[Dr. Gonzo GED]

No it's me we're not talking about spending money, we're talking about taking money from Americans who work for a living and using it to provide free college to others. Colleges dominated by liberal. leftist idealogs by the way.

Why not fix the problems with public school which is tax payer funded? You call them "gross oversights" because they don't agree with your ideology. May I ask, are you going to college or planning on going? In which of the OP's tax brackets would you be in? You also live in California IIRC which would explain the difference in mindset as well as our age difference. If you'd like to give up a much larger portion of you paycheck to pay for other peoples college feel free, curious how much extra a month you'll be letting go of? For me, I'd like to keep more of what I earn, not less.

Already went to college. And I'm up to my eyeballs in debt for it. In any other first world nation I would not be. And yes, I would pay more taxes if it meant my children had the option of going to college out of our collective pocket, instead of their own future pockets like I had to do.

The "gross oversights" I mention have more to do with your argument being flwed. Specifically, that it portrays a society more akin to apathied era South Africa, than our own nations ideals of equal oportunity and personal freedom for all. You mention my "ideology" as if I have one. I say that anybody who wants to should be able to get a higher education without going into debt, and you compare me to a Marxist moonbat? Seriously? Fuck you. Since you wouldn't know a proper argument from the hole in your as where you speak from, I'm just going to throw in the towel and give you some ad hominem, because you sound like a stupid ass hole, and you don't deserve the effort.

BTW, you want to know why I live in California? Because that's where I was able to get a job that could push me into the next tax bracket, hence "move up in the world" you dumb piece of shit. But by your standards, I should be flipping burgers, and not able to read. Because that's what we need in this country. But screw me for working and comtributing right? Because you dont agree with my "goegrphic location". Shit, that's not even one of your precious "ideologies", it's the coordinats on a map. (Nice five dollar word BTW, did you spend your whole allowance on that?) That's what you've got for an argument huh? "Der, you live in california. you must be unemployed, uneducated, and a gay hippie minority."

Again, fuck you.

Don't even bother responding. Your too fucking stupid to cary on a conversation with. (Maybe free college would have helped you out...)