So, now what do you think will happen?

[O.S.O.K.]

Barry thinks he's Abraham Lincoln and the illegals are slaves and he's going to be the great emancipator - come hell or high water.

He knows that they are the key to his survival as the new dear leader of the people's rebulic of north america.

This all may very well blow up into civil war.

[Paladin]

I think in the next year we will have armed militia engaged in firefights with drug smugglers in AZ. The feds will seek criminal charges against them and it will get really nasty when AZ puts them into protection.

Maybe AZ will do the right thing and issue private letters of marque...

[O.S.O.K.]

wikipedia: "As used in this context, marque is likely a derivation of a German word meaning "border" (Mark), and a "letter of marque and reprisal" would involve permission to cross an international border to effect a reprisal (take some action against an attack or injury) authorized by an issuing jurisdiction to conduct reprisal operations outside its borders."

I'd heard the term before but couldn't remember the definition...

I don't believe that a state has the power to issue such letters. This is a right reserved for the federal govt.

I think what we need is for the Sheriff's of the respective counties to deputize the militiamen. They are "the" authority in their counties...

[Paladin]

wikipedia: "As used in this context, marque is likely a derivation of a German word meaning "border" (Mark), and a "letter of marque and reprisal" would involve permission to cross an international border to effect a reprisal (take some action against an attack or injury) authorized by an issuing jurisdiction to conduct reprisal operations outside its borders."

I'd heard the term before but couldn't remember the definition...

I don't believe that a state has the power to issue such letters. This is a right reserved for the federal govt.

I think what we need is for the Sheriff's of the respective counties to deputize the militiamen. They are "the" authority in their counties...

The local posse is a great idea.

Actually, there is historical precedent for sovereign states to issue letters of marque privately. I believe a case can be made for the "territorial buffer" of border states in the US. Hot pursuit, in other words. This has historically been born out internationally by the world court (which supersedes US federal authority) as long as both parties in the conflict are not recognized by their respective nation states as extensions of authority. Based on old laws surrounding piracy I believe.

At any rate, vigilantism would be premature at this point.

[Paladin]

Ohmagosh! I just noticed I'm a senior member. Admin must have figured out how old I am. I wonder if they cross-check with AARP membership...

[O.S.O.K.]

You have an aarp membership? You commie!

[Paladin]

You have an aarp membership? You commie!

No AARP membership. If I had qualified 30 years ago, OK. Not now though...

[az_paul]

Gerry Celente has been pretty accurate, so I'm going with his thoughts and hope it's not as bad.

We're in Northwestern Arizona and doing basic, common sense preparations.

[Sr Wing Commander]

Interesting Paladin about the location.

I, like most here that are not retired, need to base our location on many factors including wether or not we can earn a viable income in the area.

I live in Texas.

The one thing about Texas is that we have a history of independence - more so than any other state really in that it is a history that is very much still alive.

If things go way south, the chance that Texas will declare itself independent once again and reform the republic goes way up. There will be so many benefits to doing so that I think it will most likey happen.

A good solid Texas Republic would be a good place to be in a SHTF world...

And when I say "Texas Republic", keep in mind that this may geographically include what is now Oklahoma, New Mexico, Louisiana.... more?

--------

And its interesting to note that we have a perfect bell curve with the current selection on the poll. Most people see some shit coming down - much much more so than just two years ago. So much has happened in those two years - so much negative...

Yes, as an Okie I hate to say it....but if Texas goes, I really kind of think Oklahoma goes too; our economy is pretty tied into TEXAS..Possibly some of the surrounding states as well. The oil/gas/and wheat in OK/TX would make a pretty strong little country. Just not sure how we defend it if the Feds take all the federal troops/equipment out.

[swampdragon]

Ohmagosh! I just noticed I'm a senior member. Admin must have figured out how old I am. I wonder if they cross-check with AARP membership...

Senior Member just means you have a shriveled wrinkly pod.

[Maser**]

Whatever happens we need to keep our clips loaded all the time.

[swampdragon]

I don't own any guns that use clips.

[Paladin]

Whatever happens we need to keep our clips loaded all the time.

Clips? You got a Garand?

[Paladin]

Senior Member just means you have a shriveled wrinkly pod.

Hey Sampy, can you use wrinkly-pod in a sentence for definition purposes?

"Well, there I was, with a good stock weld on my wrinkly-pod, when the damned thing commenced a shrivelin' and..."

[HDR]

Actually, there is historical precedent for sovereign states to issue letters of marque privately. I believe a case can be made for the "territorial buffer" of border states in the US. Hot pursuit, in other words. This has historically been born out internationally by the world court (which supersedes US federal authority) as long as both parties in the conflict are not recognized by their respective nation states as extensions of authority. Based on old laws surrounding piracy I believe.

I am not sure the World court has revoked the letter of marque. Hot pursuit means not being required to stop when in hot pursuit just because the criminal crossed the line of jurisdiction.

I disagree world court trumps our sovereignty because it implies the World Court can override our inalienable rights the same as our own courts do so often.

At any rate, vigilantism would be premature at this point.

What about citizen's arrest?

Millions of illegals arrested by citizens and turned over to the authorities would be a great gift idea for 0bama's court system.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yes, as an Okie I hate to say it....but if Texas goes, I really kind of think Oklahoma goes too; our economy is pretty tied into TEXAS..Possibly some of the surrounding states as well. The oil/gas/and wheat in OK/TX would make a pretty strong little country. Just not sure how we defend it if the Feds take all the federal troops/equipment out.

I believe I've seen stats that show that in and of itself, Texas is the 10th largest economy in the world. With 20 million Texans and all of the resources contained wholey in Texas, we could easily stand as our own country. Add the surrounding states, and you really get a viable country - and as to the federal "holdings", I'd suggest that the new Republic, seeing the writting on the wall would've prepared and made plans to confiscate all of it for the creation on the new Republic's defense forces. Not hard to do really as the military personnel would most likely prefer to become citizens of the new Texas Republic (or whatever it would be called). A savy Governor would have everything in place before making any kind of declaration independence and forming the new government.

Keep in mind that this new republic would declare a new economy, currency, etc. - and take on none of the debt that the USA has amassed. That would be the biggest point of contention.

[Paladin]

...I disagree world court trumps our sovereignty because it implies the World Court can override our inalienable rights the same as our own courts do so often..

Right, world court does not trump US sovereignty. I was meaning with regards happenings outside US borders regarding hostilities. Trying to point out that world court might sanction AZ to issue letters of marque to pursue into mejico regardless of US law (not that AZ would care all that much). And in the current climate, world court might do so just to spite the US. I really don't have any love of world court or much respect.

[Paladin]

I believe I've seen stats that show that in and of itself, Texas is the 10th largest economy in the world. With 20 million Texans and all of the resources contained wholey in Texas, we could easily stand as our own country. Add the surrounding states, and you really get a viable country - and as to the federal "holdings", I'd suggest that the new Republic, seeing the writting on the wall would've prepared and made plans to confiscate all of it for the creation on the new Republic's defense forces. Not hard to do really as the military personnel would most likely prefer to become citizens of the new Texas Republic (or whatever it would be called). A savy Governor would have everything in place before making any kind of declaration independence and forming the new government.

Keep in mind that this new republic would declare a new economy, currency, etc. - and take on none of the debt that the USA has amassed. That would be the biggest point of contention.

Y'all better have your immigration policy in place. Riff raff like me here in Oregon would probably head your way. Hopefully The New Republic of Texas would honor CSA script. My family kept all their's.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well if it ever comes to it, I'd hope that the new Repulic would be a magnet for all true Americans.

This would be like West and East Germany - and the results over time would be the same.

[swampdragon]

Well if it ever comes to it, I'd hope that the new Repulic would be a magnet for all true Americans.

This would be like West and East Germany - and the results over time would be the same.

Except you'd need to build more walls...and hopefully keep the Southern one up forever.