If you are NOT here to add to this community in a positive way....

[Nimbly]

The clue's in the name. PoliticsWorldwide consist of people from around the world - e.g. Britain, the US, Canada, Brazil, Italy, New Zealand, the Philippines - with a variety of political views.

I don't think the right-wing joint PoliticsWorldwide-Gunsnet members would appreciate your characterisation!

They hold US passports, love America, and believe in freedom, capitalism, the 2nd Amendment, and in getting the state off their lawn.



You'll need to ask the right-wing joint GN-PWW members. Many have large arsenals and, presumably, enjoy discussing their weapons with fellow Gunsnet members. Why lefties may want to join Gunsnet is explained in the article. Perhaps give it another read?

Have you a problem with that sir?

...It's useful for European left-wingers who wish to test their arguments in a 'hostile' environment...


This statement is what I have a problem with. You pretty much are saying that you are not here to discuss guns, or the politics involved, but here to troll. You are saying that you are here on gunsnet so you can find some people with differing opinion to test your Marxist arguments about why the rest of the world is so much better then the USA. That is my problem, and the main reason why I feel this forum has gone to hell.

Any other crap you have for me to read? Something between the lines?

[Joey]

You are... poking a bee hive with a stick just to see what happens.... I am starting to doubt that you are here to contribute or discuss, but to stir things up and watch people go nuts....

Untrue sir. You describe classic troll behaviour: someone who gets delight from winding people up on the internet; who doesn't care about the community, the truth, other people's arguments, or the wider objectives of a site; someone just out to cause trouble.

I'm highly supportive of Gunsnet. I think it's a great forum and have said so repeatedly. I want it to grow, prosper, generate large amounts of income, and wish it all the luck in the world.

I admire, in particular, your attachment to free speech. Many internet forums, particularly leftist forums, would do well to study Gunsnet and learn lessons from you.

I have great respect for your libertarian (right-wing anarchist) members. I don't agree with their attachment to capitalism but, in their love of freedom, and to be free of government bureaucrats telling them what to do and taking their taxes, I'm with them 100%.

If I lived in the States I'd want to be armed, no question about it. I'd then, with great pleasure, come on Gunsnet and contribute in a respectful and, hopefully, intelligent way to gun-specific threads. In the meantime, as stated in the article and elsewhere on this thread, it's probably best for Brits to stick to general and political areas of the site.

The arguments I've made on Gunsnet are sincere. They're not "troll" projections. I've expressed beliefs which (a) I hold and (b) I believe to be true. I'm not going to pretend to be other than I am. I try to be a stand up guy, say what I think, am frightened of no one (except, perhaps, my girlfriend's mother but if you met her.....* ) and I kiss nobody's arse.

Which fits with my final point. If I get a foul-mouthed cyber-abuser after me, on Gunsnet or anywhere else on the internet or in real life, I'll go for them. They're cowardly bullies imo, the enemies of free speech, and a curse on any well-run social media operation.

If you look back at the rows I've had here they're predominantly with foul-mouthed cyber-abusers permitted to operate outside the Roadhouse. Why should anyone put up with them?


* She's actually a wonderful woman.... but forceful

[Blacksmith]

I hope this article helps with the PoliticsWorldwide - Gunsnet relationship. All comments welcome. There's a XXXXX thread about it
Since XXXXX was formed in May 2010 a relationship has developed with Gunsnet, a US forum which supports the US 2nd Amendment (right to keep and bear arms). A number of members belong to both forums.

Gunsnet is a good forum: large, long-established, lively, well-run. It's useful for European left-wingers who wish to test their arguments in a 'hostile' environment. Many Gunsnet members are from the libertarian right - capitalists who want government out of their hair - and may give 'Eurolefties' - who support a more vigorous state - a run for their money.

Conversely, XXXXXXX members include conservatives, liberals, social democrats, socialists, Marxists and anarchists whom American right-wingers enjoy arguing with.

The two forums have different traditions. This article is to assist members of each community get the most from the two sites.

Both forums have a strong commitment to free speech but operate within the law and their ISPs' terms of service. Moderation is light but hate-speech, unlawful activity and trolling is not permitted.

I'm defining trolling as 'Posting lies, or being otherwise insincere, to provoke an argument on the internet.' Obviously, it's not trolling to post a lawful and sincerely held political belief which someone happens to disagree with. That's called 'political debate.'

XXXXXX is a full-blown politics forum divided geographically (Europe, Asia, the Americas etc plus general forums on the arts, technology and chit-chat ) while Gunsnet is a specialist firearms site with political and general forums.

It is therefore unwise for a XXXXXXX member to post provocative material in a Gunsnet forum devoted to guns. Even sincere or humourous material may be viewed as trolling and cause upset and, consequently, work for Gunsnet mods. Best to stick to the general and political areas of the site.

Joint members should also be aware that the two forums have different attitudes to cyber-abuse - the posting of material attacking a member in personal, foul-mouthed terms.

Gunsnet has a small contingent of male, spotty, 14 yr old members who, operating as a gang, may pursue someone they disagree with politically about the forums, posting foul-mouthed abuse, disrupting threads, setting hares running, and generally trolling the GN political and general threads. Some even post foul-mouthed abuse on personal profile pages.

Conversely, cyber-abusers are not permitted on XXXXXXX. They're viewed as the enemy of free speech and are dealt with by the moderators quickly, fairly and firmly.

Extreme cyber-abusers are banned, e.g. Crappy, while others are confined to the 'Gulag' until they learn to debate without engaging in foul-mouthed abuse, e.g. Dr. Gonzo GED and chiak47.

An example of a Gunsnet cyber-abuser:



Note the foul-mouthed (excrement, genitalia and homosexuality fixated) language of a 14 yr old male, unsure of his masculinity, possibly a homosexual in denial, safely anonymous on the internet.

The above is not to criticise the Gunsnet moderation style. It's simply a difference in culture between the two forums. Joint members should be aware of the difference if they're to enjoy the two sites to the full.

Finally, the two sites' commitment to free speech extends to a general culture of non-censorship, hiding or locking threads as little as possible, keeping bans to a minimum, not interfering with members' posting permissions, and generally avoiding the mistakes of other, over-moderated, forums.

Members of both sites are treated as responsible, free-thinking adults. They're expected to behave as such.

LMAO
This Troll is the equivalent of a Libtarded Ferd.

[slamfire51]

Untrue sir. You describe classic troll behaviour: someone who gets delight from winding people up on the internet; who doesn't care about the community, the truth, other people's arguments, or the wider objectives of a site; someone just out to cause trouble.

I'm highly supportive of Gunsnet. I think it's a great forum and have said so repeatedly. I want it to grow, prosper, generate large amounts of income, and wish it all the luck in the world.

I admire, in particular, your attachment to free speech. Many internet forums, particularly leftist forums, would do well to study Gunsnet and learn lessons from you.

I have great respect for your libertarian (right-wing anarchist) members. I don't agree with their attachment to capitalism but, in their love of freedom, and to be free of government bureaucrats telling them what to do and taking their taxes, I'm with them 100%.

If I lived in the States I'd want to be armed, no question about it. I'd then, with great pleasure, come on Gunsnet and contribute in a respectful and, hopefully, intelligent way to gun-specific threads. In the meantime, as stated in the article and elsewhere on this thread, it's probably best for Brits to stick to general and political areas of the site.

The arguments I've made on Gunsnet are sincere. They're not "troll" projections. I've expressed beliefs which (a) I hold and (b) I believe to be true. I'm not going to pretend to be other than I am. I try to be a stand up guy, say what I think, am frightened of no one (except, perhaps, my girlfriend's mother but if you met her.....* ) and I kiss nobody's arse.

Which fits with my final point. If I get a foul-mouthed cyber-abuser after me, on Gunsnet or anywhere else on the internet or in real life, I'll go for them. They're cowardly bullies imo, the enemies of free speech, and a curse on any well-run social media operation.

If you look back at the rows I've had here they're predominantly with foul-mouthed cyber-abusers permitted to operate outside the Roadhouse. Why should anyone put up with them?


* She's actually a wonderful woman.... but forceful

Joey, this is pure

You aren't fooling anyone here.

[Vorkutinetz]

Whats truth to one person is a blasphemy to the other. I understand where you are coming from, but I do have to go by what I see in threads in question. I am, in that case, forced to blame both sides for the argument, one for provoking and the other for allowing itself to be provoked. Some people have less patience than others, especially when it comes to their core believes. God knows, I have had some major disagreements with some people here (old GN)...thats when I realized the difference between presenting an opinion and trying to change the one of somebody else. There are some arguments that can not be won, plain and simple. Agree to disagree.

And I call to all members, not just you, to keep a level head and not resolve to profanity and personal attacks.

[Blacksmith]

There are forums for Political, Religious, and pissing match discussions.
They are not there to waste bandwidth.
When discussions get out of hand, extremely stray off topic, or become a pissing match, they WILL be moved to the Roadhouse or closed.

You guys going to lock this one?
IMHO
You would be better off sending these type threads to the road house where we can settle them. rather than just locking them and sending the problem on to the next thread.

[slamfire51]

You guys going to lock this one?
IMHO
You would be better off sending these type threads to the road house where we can settle them. rather than just locking them and sending the problem on to the next thread.

Not that I know of.

No matter what controversial thread is started, there are going to be opinions, which is good and welcome, as long as they don't become pissing matches.

[Vorkutinetz]

Not that I know of.

No matter what controversial thread is started, there are going to be opinions, which is good and welcome, as long as they don't become pissing matches.

+100

[imanaknut]

So far this thread is what they are supposed to be. Calm discussion of opposing views. Sometimes it isn't easy discussing something calmly when it is something you are very passionate about, but going off the deep end serves no purpose to anyone.

Calm heads need to prevail, no matter how badly anyone feels they are being provoked. Sometimes a really thick skin is needed on any open forum, so if anyone feels they don't have a thick enough skin, man or woman up and don't hit the reply button.

[old Grump]

I have great respect for your libertarian (right-wing anarchist) members. I don't agree with their attachment to capitalism but, in their love of freedom, and to be free of government bureaucrats telling them what to do and taking their taxes, I'm with them 100%.

Hey, who are you calling an anarchist? Only Libertarian anarchists I have ever met are the hairy little buggers going to university and have never had to work a day in their lives. They take a few socialist classes from proto-marxists, (or neo-marxist, whichever way you want to define them), and think they have to overthrow everything in order to be free of the shackles of state laws, rules and the unfair restrictions of mama and papa whose basement they are living in and whose food they are eating.

That is not what a Libertarian is no matter what the little fuzzy faces call themselves. Small government with certain mandated responsibilities and duties, no more, no less. When government is big enough that it can get into our personal life or business they are acting like nanny government and that way lies communism and oligarchy.

Libertarians are constitutionalists but that does not make us left or right wing. We are also not libertines which a few well known show business types have claimed. We leave that for the smoke em, snort em, inject em if you got em crowd.

[AKTexas]

How can anyone call themselves an Anarchist and use the internet?

[63DH8]

I have great respect for your libertarian (right-wing anarchist) members. I don't agree with their attachment to capitalism but, in their love of freedom, and to be free of government bureaucrats telling them what to do and taking their taxes, I'm with them 100%.

If I lived in the States I'd want to be armed, no question about it. I'd then, with great pleasure, come on Gunsnet and contribute in a respectful and, hopefully, intelligent way to gun-specific threads. In the meantime, as stated in the article and elsewhere on this thread, it's probably best for Brits to stick to general and political areas of the site.

Joey, if you lived in the US, unless you went into a bad part of some of the larger cities in the east or in the bad parts of a larger city in California, you probably not need that firearm. Most of the western part of the US would hear your accent and ask you if they could buy you a beer. (I don't recommend it unless you're in Seattle, Washington or Portland, Oregon due to the microbrews. With the exception of Microbrews, US beers tend to taste like piss to the European palate).

As for capitalism, if you spent the time and money to school for six or eight years, had to do without during that time so you could get an education and start your business, don't you think you deserve every penny you get? Wouldn't you feel it should be your RIGHT to decide which charity you donate to? Why should the Government take a share of your hard earned money before IT gives a smaller portion of your hard earned money away? Perhaps you would rather use that money to grow your business so you can hire some poor unemployed person. After all, it's people with money who hires the unemployed (Show me one penniless person who hired anyone).

Here in the US, the rich, about 10% of the population, pays around 80% of the taxes. If you have children and in a lower to middle income bracket, you can get more back in your tax return than what you paid.

[chiak47]

Swampy got banned?

Here I was expecting the Christmas thread to be a good one.

[TEN-32]

Swampy got banned, the British troll jacked the thread, and Ho Ho Ho.

[old Grump]

Swampy got banned, the British troll jacked the thread, and Ho Ho Ho.

Actually Joey didn't say anything controversial, the thread got jacked when some here got all hot and bothered because he was on the thread. This is Gunsnet and everybody is free to post right? Topic of the post wasn't Joey, but knee jerk responses by the same Joey haters made it a Joey thread. It makes all of us look like simple minded morons. Debating a point he made is one thing but just jumping in with inane vitriol about what some imagine his sex life to be and what his toilet habits are is a little tiresome for a GD thread.

[slamfire51]

Actually Joey didn't say anything controversial, the thread got jacked when some here got all hot and bothered because he was on the thread. This is Gunsnet and everybody is free to post right? Topic of the post wasn't Joey, but knee jerk responses by the same Joey haters made it a Joey thread. It makes all of us look like simple minded morons. Debating a point he made is one thing but just jumping in with inane vitriol about what some imagine his sex life to be and what his toilet habits are is a little tiresome for a GD thread.

Joey has a right to express his opinion, sure.
But, when someone comes here to intentionally stir the pot or demean others opinions, that is called trolling.
This has been Joey's MO from day one.

[JAMC]

Actually Joey didn't say anything controversial, the thread got jacked when some here got all hot and bothered because he was on the thread. This is Gunsnet and everybody is free to post right? Topic of the post wasn't Joey, but knee jerk responses by the same Joey haters made it a Joey thread. It makes all of us look like simple minded morons. Debating a point he made is one thing but just jumping in with inane vitriol about what some imagine his sex life to be and what his toilet habits are is a little tiresome for a GD thread.

Put as only a true gentleman could.

As I've only arrived here recently I can't claim to fully understand Swampy's motivations for wanting to leave, but I find it hard to believe that some kind of personal animosity (on his part) is the root cause. When a group of gunsnet regulars came and visited PWW en masse earlier this year - they were invited I should point out, they didn't gatecrash - Swampy was among their number. My personal opinion of Swampy couldn't be higher; I found him highly articulate and thought-provoking. As a result of those qualities, I can only presume he will be sorely missed.

[filthy phil]

Put as only a true gentleman could.

As I've only arrived here recently I can't claim to fully understand Swampy's motivations for wanting to leave, but I find it hard to believe that some kind of personal animosity (on his part) is the root cause. When a group of gunsnet regulars came and visited PWW en masse earlier this year - they were invited I should point out, they didn't gatecrash - Swampy was among their number. My personal opinion of Swampy couldn't be higher; I found him highly articulate and thought-provoking. As a result of those qualities, I can only presume he will be sorely missed.

he became drunk on power, imho

[slamfire51]

he became drunk on power, imho

I don't think so.

[weevil]

Actually Joey didn't say anything controversial, the thread got jacked when some here got all hot and bothered because he was on the thread. This is Gunsnet and everybody is free to post right? Topic of the post wasn't Joey, but knee jerk responses by the same Joey haters made it a Joey thread. It makes all of us look like simple minded morons. Debating a point he made is one thing but just jumping in with inane vitriol about what some imagine his sex life to be and what his toilet habits are is a little tiresome for a GD thread.

+1

It takes two to tango.


If you think someones is a troll then don't respond to their posts.

From what I've seen there are a lot of narrow minded types here who refuse to listen to opposing views and go out of their way to insult and flame anyone with a differering opinion.

Flaming someone and peppering them with insults to get a thread closed or moved seems to have become a popular strategy around here.