Two kinds of people with guns

[hazmat]

Had two. One AD and one ND.

The AD happened three years ago at hunting camp. Loaded my NDM 86 and didn't think twice about it. Got back to camp that night and went to unload. Bolt didn't go all the way into battery when I initially loaded it, good thing I didn't see anything that day. So anyhow, I'm trying to get the bolt to open. I've got a hold of the grip on the stock, fingers nowhere near the trigger guard. Grab the charging handle and give it good yank. Round doesn't come out, but the bolt slams home when I released it. At this point, the barrel is pointed down between my feet. As soon as that bolt got home....BOOOM! Ears ringing, eyes wide open, heart racing. The cause of the AD? Forgot NDMs don't like Federal ammo. The inertia of the bolt coming home and a weak FP spring caused the gun to go off. Still finding dirt clods in my pickup from that. Lesson learned: Don't use Federal ammo or rounds primed with Federal primers in the NDM.

The ND happened a year and a half ago. Had a hangup in my S12 at the MG shoot in Sturgis. Took it down but forgot to clear it out. But I did take the mag out, lucky for me. Anyway, took the top cover off to get the FCG un-fuckered and as soon as I touched the trigger bar, everything came loose and BOOM. Fortunately, the barrel was pointed downrange, and I only managed to dig a furrough in the top of the table. Of course pellets went everywhere. Since then, I get nine kinds of paranoid about the FCG in that S12.

So those are my fuck ups. Thankfully, no one was hurt, except my pride.

[arcangel]

I've had 2 ND's. One with a XD 45 at my dads home 3 am or so. Only person that heard the shot was my mom. She was too scared to come up to see what happened. If I had been facing the opposite direction my brother, and his son wouldnt be here. And the second ND was at a higher end hotel out of state, with a G19, sent that fucker into the shower which stopped it, had I been pointing the gun about 8 feet right my dad wouldnt be here. I've been lucky not to hurt any one or worse. Puttied and painted over the picture frame on the wall and it never happened. Learned my lesson, learned it good.

[Mark Ducati]

3 ND for me....

First, living in an Apartment, got my first AR15... I had stripped that thing down, put it back together several times getting to know her and how it functions. Put a full mag in, pulled the charging handle back, let it go forward, chambered a round, took the mag out... didn't know what the hell I was thinking but aimed it at the wall and pulled the trigger... the bullet went through the dry wall to an outside wall (and not into an adjoining apartment thank God). The outside hole was about the size of a baseball as it went through the vinyl siding. I stuck a straight piece of coat hanger wire through the hole to look at the path of the bullet and it looked like it found clean air in the sky.

Second ND, just bought a Model 1 Sales dedicated .22LR upper for my NFA M16... been having lots of trouble getting this thing to cycle on full auto, been playing with different recoil springs and how much lube to use on the bolt carrier... went through a couple mag dumps, the last mag it jammed, so I eject a live round, and charge the weapon again, cycled another 5-7 rounds, jammed, so I removed the mag and came inside. Walking through the downstairs bedroom I had the weapon pointed up and pulled the trigger... POW! It fired the last live round int he chamber. Very small .22 hole in the ceiling, I ran upstairs and thank God I had maple hardwood floors, the floor stopped the bullet from coming through, although there was a slight raise in the wood where the bullet pushed it up. This was underneath the hallway carpet, so I used a rubber mallet to pound the wood back down, put some drywall filler in the small hole and the wife has no idea to this day.

Third ND, Hk 45 USPc compact pistol... first pistol with a "decocker"... kinda like the first AR experience, tore that thing apart several times, put it back together, full mag, chamber a round, remove mag, use the decocker but pulled trigger forgetting it has double action trigger... went through the dry wall, ricocheted off the bathroom floor into another piece of drywall and the pine stud in the wall stopped it. Got the spackling out again.

Hopefully no more ND's in future, I triple check weapons every time and I NEVER dry fire a weapon unless I'm outside and pointing the weapon in a safe direction.

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This thread is kind of like motorcycle riders... those of have crashed and those who haven't crashed yet! If you're around guns long enough, you're likely to have a ND at some point, even if its at the range....

That's why you follow gun safety at all times and keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction, never point a weapon at anything you're not prepared to destroy.

We practice these gun safe practices with my son and his cap guns and nerf guns... he's not allowed to shoot those styrofoam bullets at anyone even during play. Start them young with the basics. He only shoots empty soda cans and paper targets taped to a window with a safe back stop.

[El Jefe]

I've been really fortunate thus far *knock on wood* I've yet to have an AD, and the closest to a ND I've come was starting to take a .22 rifle apart to clean before checking to see if it was loaded, luckily I decided to check before I got too far into it and noticed that it was indeed loaded, that kinda shook me up a bit, but has made me extra cautious since. Having two youngsters learning how to shoot keeps me on my toes and probably has led to me being extra, extra cautious. It would really suck to be at a range in the boonies and get shot by a 10 year old and be 20 miles from the hospital.

[old Grump]

I have to STRONGLY disagree. It IS your fault, and nobody's else.
You handle something can kill a person instantly? You follow the safety rules and be careful with it.
Guns don't shoot by themselves, and between the gun and you, only you have a brain and are responsbile for what happens.



If handling gun:
- Check that gun's unloaded (look into chamber)
- Keep finger off trigger.

No argument but the point is there are negligent discharges and accidental. Where the gun is pointed when it goes off is on the gun handler. Sometimes its hard to not sweep things you don't want shot in order to put the gun away or holster it. Sometimes bad things happen we didn't have control over, that's the accidental portion of this thread. It happens, lets not let this get into a pissing contest.

[El Jefe]

No argument but the point is there are negligent discharges and accidental. Where the gun is pointed when it goes off is on the gun handler. Sometimes its hard to not sweep things you don't want shot in order to put the gun away or holster it. Sometimes bad things happen we didn't have control over, that's the accidental portion of this thread. It happens, lets not let this get into a pissing contest.

The accidental part of the equation is why the two main things I hammer the boys with, is being careful of the direction the gun is pointed, and keeping their finger off the trigger until they want it to go bang.

[old Grump]

Us dinosaurs need to be reminded constantly too. We get complacent due to familiarity, like driving to work and not remembering the trip because we were on auto pilot. That little 45 caliber hole in my bedroom floor was done last spring. Fortunately I always point in a safe direction no matter what, even if the gun is dismantled. Some things really stick with a guy. Seems like I have a stupid moment about every 20 years. Hopefully I'm old enough I won't have anymore.

I have friends who have killed a TV set, a microwave, a parakeet, a 1971 Pinto automobile, several walls and lamps and a window or three. All of them but one claim they were cleaning their gun. The man who killed his wifes parakeet really was cleaning his gun, go figure. The TV was killed when all the rage was cowboy fast draw and leg wounds. In this case it was a high school buddy with a 22 revolver trying to beat Paladin at the beginning of the show. Most incidents were only yell ats or not admitted to till years later.

The TV set was an exception, that was a beat down a yell down a grounded down, you could say he was a son of a gun. Story goes his dad was guilty of the same thing only it involved a 30-30, a barn, a radio and grandpa about to change the radio station before getting down to milking. Might be why his dad reacted as strenuously as he did. One thing about a small town, stories like that stick around for generations. As long as you live there somebody will remember it and bring it up.

[btcave]

The parakeet reminded me of my friend. He was in his apartment and his friend brought over his handgun. Long story short, my friend thought he had unloaded it, so he aimed the pistol at his wife's cat. It didn't die immediately. He had to take it out back and finish it. ND

Same friend chambered a round in a .45 while sitting in the passengers seat at a stop light. He had that 1 in 1000 primer det that semi-auto's experience and put a hole through the floorboard between his feet. AD

[old Grump]

More to the parakeet story. They lived on the farm up at the end of the road at the end of the valley. He was an ass, she was nuttier than a bag of planters nuts. He had been hunting, was cleaning the gun and at the end decided to work the bolt, slam fire. bullet went through the cage, never touched the bird but it was dead anyway.

This same gal was doing her laundry one day and this was back when we all hung our clothes outside and the washing machines all had wringers. You have heard the expression tit in a wringer, well she did. Anybody else would have hit the switch to kill the power and then turned the latch on top of the wringer to release it. Us kids learned that trick early on as we would want to help and sometimes while feeding towels or sheets into the wringer we would get tangled up and get sucked in. Modern kids have no idea how much fun we had back then. The old man heard screeching from the house. Hopped the fence and ran into the kitchen. There she was singing at the top of her voice,

"Please release me let me go
for I don’t love you anymore
To waste our lives would be a sin
Release me and let me love again"

You can't make this stuff up. She spent more time in Mendota the state mental hospital then she did at home. Lord how I miss her, and I wish I could have bought that farm, it was beautiful.

[cajun shooter]

I have not yet had an ND or AD yet and hope I never will. The closest I have had is when I scared the hell out of myself with a snap cap I had in a pistol I had stored away for a while.

However I do want to know more about the Pinto and how it got killed without a fireball.

[NAPOTS]

AD - I have had an SKS double on me a few times.

ND. I had just gotten my Wilson Combat 1911 with its 3.5 lb trigger and was used to my Springfield which had to have had a 7 or 8 lb trigger. I double tapped on accident (almost like a bump fire) due to the light trigger pull and sent a round over the berm. No one notice but I still feel bad about it.

I did have a real close call too. I would say it was due to complacency like old grump said. I was at the range going through a few boxes of .45 and was counting rounds. I was also adjusting my sights that day. Well a few mags in I was adjusting the sights and realized I fucked up the count and was messing with a cocked and locked 1911.

So far I have been lucky I haven't put a hole in anything I didn't intend to in 20 years of shooting KNOCK ON WOOD. I try and always check my chamber, and check it again before I pull the trigger and observe all of the rules of gun safety.

Keeping your finger out of the trigger guard and maintaining muzzle discipline go a long way. I always assume the gun is loaded even if I just unloaded it and check the chamber, shit, check it again.

[old Grump]

However I do want to know more about the Pinto and how it got killed without a fireball.

Out at the farm, don't remember the occasion but a lot of people were there and there was a lot of beer involved. It really was a nice little car, ran good, handled good and pretty good gas mileage. It was just a little noisy inside when you were driving down the highway but that was a thing all hatchbacks had, at least back then. The Pinto owners buddy was showing his new rifle, caliber no longer remembered but it was a lever action. He was pointing it at headlights of the different cars in the driveway and somebody told him to point it at his own damn car. "Its not loaded" Pointed it at the Pinto and killed it. Then he bought it. Never saw him with a gun again so I'm guessing that the gun was sold to make a car payment. Didn't stop the beer drinking but it was pretty quiet for awhile.

[l921428x]

Dec. 2006

Round chambered, barrel pointed in an unsafe direction, up, safety on.
The rifle went off and struck me in the upper arm and a day does not go by in which I do not think of that morning. It took 4 months for me to relearn how to touch my pinky finger to my thumb. ND all the way, no excuses.

Be careful boys and girls.

[AKTexas]

Got reminded of a recent story by my uncle.There is a fellow we shoot with at the range.He lives in Bandera and drives into San Antonio.

He is Vet from Vietnam,has a high opinion for the M14 and a low one for the M16.Good guy over all he may shoot 10 rounds in 3 hours.

He always brings the same rifle,a pre-64 Winchester M70 .270 and once in a while he brings the twin in 30-06.He hand-loads,knows his firearms,and a bit of history about them.Particularly US arms.He respects the commie weapons,especially the AK.He does not own any semi-auto.He said he had enough of that in the military.He is not against them just has no need for one.

He is a real character and a pleasure to shoot with.He always comes over to chat,praise me for bringing my kids and to talk about what I shooting,doing with school etc.

He told us that 2 seasons ago his brother shot himself while out hunting.He toned down the details some and I will leave out the rest.He told us that he was crossing a fence when the ND happened which ended his life.He was found still holding the fence post when they found him.

We don't get to see him every weekend when we attend the range,he has to care for his elderly mother now since his brother has passed.

[slamfire51]

I've had both.

5.56 rd. from an AR into a box of AK building tools. Bullet hit a trigger riveting jig and the bullet disintegrated before traveling 2'.The steel of the jig was cratered where it hit.
My ears still ring from that one.
I have a pic of the end results somewhere.

[slamfire51]

Found the pics.
The fragments never hit the wall behind the box.

[1 Patriot-of-many]

Short of mechanical failure there's no excuse. You simply weren't safely handling a firearm. I've had neither.

[old Grump]

Short of mechanical failure there's no excuse. You simply weren't safely handling a firearm. I've had neither.

Famous last words and I hope your gun is pointed in a safe direction when it finally happens. I don't want it to but it will.

[Flinter]

I remember rushing to the shop when my builder called and said that my new 54 caliber, Lancaster school, flintlock was finished. I picked my best friend up on the way there with full intentions of spending the day shooting.

I looked the gun over briefly in the shop, grabbed the proper round balls and headed to the farm.

She was a beauty....I remember talking about how many deer would fall to this gun just as soon as I got her sighted in.

Poured the powder down the barrel, patch cloth over the muzzle, seated the ball....

I placed the hammer on halfcock while chatting with my buddy....primed the pan. I realized that I had the barrel pointed towards his body.....

Swung the rifle the other way, flipped the frizzen closed, went to full cock.....

SWOOOSH BOOM!!!!!

The full cock notch did not engage. It allowed the hammer to drop, which sent the flint against the frizzen with full force and the resulting shower of sparks ignited the load.

I got a face full of powder blast and a pair of dirty undies.

Friends, I have no idea what made me look to see where the muzzle was before finshing that load. Habbit I guess....but it was purely subconcious. I thank the good Lord that I did though, otherwise I'd have shot my best friend right through the chest.

I also have no idea why the hell I didn't check that damn lock before I loaded that rifle.

[romak10/63UF]

At a young age 18... every one tells you double check keep your finger off the trigger when cleaning your firearms.. well even i have ( 1 ) AD under mybelt the story goes like this....

I was 18 bought my first ak-47 took it to the range shot the hell out of it with corrosive ammo i think it was yugo... i came home went to my bed room field striped it cleaned the hell out of it... someone came knocking on my bedroom door an it shocked me... i forgot i had 1 round left in the clip at this time... after that i went back to cleaning my firearm... i put the bolt in then the spring then the dust cover then the magazine that had 1 FMJ round in it... 7.62x39mm i honestly didnt think there was a round in it i swear ! lmao... eather way i pointed the ak-47 at about a 90* angle an pulled the trigger just to make sure it was fireing.. oh yea it fired.. right threw the ceiling right into a giant 20 foot long 12 inch wide oak beam in the addic.. never did recover the bullet... needless to say its been 12 years an not one AD . Trust me one time an you have learned your lesson ...

p.s. my ears rang all night long... lol