270. vs. 308. vs. 30-06?

[Broondog]

i'm going to have to weigh in with another for the 30.06. it has always been a straight A player for me and lets me reach out and touch "dog sized targets" out to 300yds with relative ease.

then again, when the volcano's start erupting the game changes and i switch to 8mm for that extra bit of punch.

[HDR]

Well, as the 06 and 308 use the same bullet, I'd say their BC is the same.

[AKTexas]

i'm going to have to weigh in with another for the 30.06. it has always been a straight A player for me and lets me reach out and touch "dog sized targets" out to 300yds with relative ease.

then again, when the volcano's start erupting the game changes and i switch to 8mm for that extra bit of punch.

I think I shoot 8mm more than any other cartridge...I only have 10k+ of the surplus stuff stashed.

[O.S.O.K.]

Focus, I have no experience with the Axis but I suspect that it's every bit as good a rifle as the 200. The 200 is piller bedded and the barrel is floated. The barrel is a savage barrel with their normal nut attachment method - all of this gives you a very good chance of getting an accurate rifle.

And the 200 that I looked at even had a stock without noticable mold lines The older ones had very bad mold lines but I just sanded them off and painted the stock.

[Sidartha]

Well, as the 06 and 308 use the same bullet, I'd say their BC is the same.

Yes BC determins velocity loss and thus bullet drop over distance.
But weight determins sectional density and that is a factor in the terminal ballistics.

[O.S.O.K.]

I like the 308 Win but the 30-06 is more cartridge, just as the 300 Win Mag is more. No flies on the 308...

[O.S.O.K.]

I have a confession... I practice what I preach.

I went and bought the Stevens

It kept nagging at me $180... $180... and I decided that I needed to make a "on the edge" rifle for hunting deer in Mississippi. You see, the deer there are trained and only come out of hiding after the sun goes down or real close to it... and they tend not to stay out much past first crack in the morning. So, I'm always looking through my 3x9 scope trying to make out if its a legal buck.

Assuming this baby shoots, I now have that solved - as I also bought a 4x12 BDC Nikon Prostaff and some Leupy mounts.

And for once, I followed the old advice of spending as much or more on your scope than you do on the rifle

I'll go take the obligatory pic now... oh, and the trigger is so easy to adjust - just one little wratcheting screw... and its now a decent hunting trigger.

ETA: OK, here it is...

[Schuetzenman]

So what would be the difference in the ballistic coefficient of an 06 and a 308?

Just curious..

None for the most part as both shoot the same diameter bullets. The 270 would probably have the best BC's for the 3 listed if all bullet weights were equal. BC is merely a way to rate how much drag a bullet has. Shape is important, legth and weight are also part of the total picture that gives the projectile a high BC.

To answer the original posters questions the .270 is a necked down .30-06 case. It's advantage is .27 caliber bullets vs. .30 cal. bullets. A .270 bullet of equal length to a .30 cal. bullet would have a better BC and should retain more speed down range. This is how the term flatter shooting comes from. If the bullet is going faster it will cover the distance quicker and as such fall a shorter distance as all bullets are pulled down and fall from gravity.

The long range match shooter trend over the last decade has been to smaller caliber, but longer than normal bullets. Examples would be 6.5 Creedmore, or 6.5x.284. Also the 260 Remington a.k.a. 6.5-.308. This last one is a .308 Winchester case necked down to tak 6.5 bullets. There's also a 6.5 Lapua chambering that is fairly clsoe to the Creedmore in size and speeds produced. Lastly there is the 6.5 Grendel which puts .308 like ballistics in a standard AR15 size rifle and magazines. By that I mean down range retained speed and flight paths / drop rate but with better or I should say less drift in cross winds than the .308.

How accurate are any of these, probably tons more than most can shoot them. I've never shoot 1000 yards, but I have done a fair bit of 200 to 600 yard shooting. Once you go past 200 bullet drop and wind start playing a significant role in hitting anything. 600 yards accuracy is very dependant on being able to call wind and read mirage. It's been 8 years since I shot any 600 yard competition and I probably couldn't do much more than get on the paper. Long range shooting skills is an acquired talent that needs to be practiced, over and over regularly if you want to be able to hit at long range. You want to be really good then get ready to shoot 5,000 rounds a year and burn out barrels 2 times a year. Maybe more depending on the chambering.

[mriddick]

I have a confession... I practice what I preach.

I went and bought the Stevens

It kept nagging at me $180... $180... and I decided that I needed to make a "on the edge" rifle for hunting deer in Mississippi. You see, the deer there are trained and only come out of hiding after the sun goes down or real close to it... and they tend not to stay out much past first crack in the morning. So, I'm always looking through my 3x9 scope trying to make out if its a legal buck.

Assuming this baby shoots, I now have that solved - as I also bought a 4x12 BDC Nikon Prostaff and some Leupy mounts.

And for once, I followed the old advice of spending as much or more on your scope than you do on the rifle

I'll go take the obligatory pic now... oh, and the trigger is so easy to adjust - just one little wratcheting screw... and its now a decent hunting trigger.

ETA: OK, here it is...

Have they improved the stock any? I like my 223 Stevens 200 but the stock is alittle on the flimsy side.

[American Rage]

Good job, O.S.O.K.


Rage

[HDR]

None for the most part as both shoot the same diameter bullets. The 270 would probably have the best BC's for the 3 listed if all bullet weights were equal.

Why would anyone shoot 135 gr 308 just to match the 270's BC?

[mriddick]

Why would anyone shoot 135 gr 308 just to match the 270's BC?

Huh? I don't get that.

[Starvin]

I started to write a long drawn out explanation of ballistic coefficients and how it relates to your question but I decided the Wikipedia answer is a lot more fleshed out and I feel like cracking a beer and eating some hot wings tonight rather than writing a paper so here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient

Bottom line is get a .30'06 for hunting. You can find hunting ammo for it in any sporting goods shop and it offers tremendous versatility for the reloader if you decide to go that route. Bullet options are abundant, there's plenty of load data and in a modern gun you can load it to a level that's knocking on the .300 win mag's door.

.308 is a great "do everything" round but unless you reload you're stuck with limited hunting options at most shops and (IMHO) overpriced surplus ammo.

.270 is a classic but not as much as the '06 (though it's definatly second in line for classic hunting cartridges) and there are better non-traditional options for flat shooting cartridges. Still, I do recommend it to recoil sensitive folks who want a general purpose hunting gun.

Reloading will set you free and open up a whole nother world of the shooting sport/hobby

[O.S.O.K.]

The .270 Win has plenty of kick in the Stevens - due to their light weight - I've let other guys shoot mine and they are always surprised at the recoil.

Not that it's bad, just more than you'd expect from a .270 - more like a 30-06.

[O.S.O.K.]

Have they improved the stock any? I like my 223 Stevens 200 but the stock is alittle on the flimsy side.

Same stock but just a little better finish - but it's still flimsy. Could do with an upgrade but then, they do the job... and they are very light.

[mriddick]

Same stock but just a little better finish - but it's still flimsy. Could do with an upgrade but then, they do the job... and they are very light.

Yeah I've decided to keep mine and not upgrade either which could just about double the price of my rifle lol

[Starvin]

The .270 Win has plenty of kick in the Stevens - due to their light weight - I've let other guys shoot mine and they are always surprised at the recoil.

Not that it's bad, just more than you'd expect from a .270 - more like a 30-06.

Yea there's no question a light hunting .270 is still going to give brisk recoil. It's just not going to be as jarring an experiance as a .30'06 slinging 180gr pills.

[American Rage]

Crazy Q?

What are the lightest and heaviest bullets one can fire from an M1 Garand?



Rage

[Schuetzenman]

Why would anyone shoot 135 gr 308 just to match the 270's BC?

You couldn't match the 270 at 135 grs. in a .30 cal bullet. That light a bullet in the bigger diameter would have a worse BC than the 270 bullet. Longer relative to diameter bullets have better BC. Short bullets have worse. A 270 bullet of equal length to a .30 cal. bullet will weigh less but have the better BC. Another example is the 80 gr. Sierra MK .224" bullet for the AR15. For 600 yard competition it's pretty much the bullet of choice. It is as long a a 147 gr. NATO .30 cal. bullet. The 80 gr. Sierra has a significantly higher BC vs. the much heavier but also much fatter diameter .308 NATO bullet.

Back to the .270 again. Sierra's data shows this for the 135 gr. Sierra Match King .270 bullet. .488 @ 2800 fps and above or .482 between 2800 and 2000 fps initial bullet speed. For the 135 gr. Sierra Match King .30 cal. bullet it has a BC of .370 between 1900 and 3250 fps. .488 for the 270, .370 for the .30 cal. bullet both of equal weight but not of equal BC. The 270 is much higher in BC because for the weight it's a longer more slender projectile so it will slip through the air with less drag than the fatter .30 cal round.

[Schuetzenman]

Crazy Q?

What are the lightest and heaviest bullets one can fire from an M1 Garand?



Rage

Well, as far as lightest it would be a guess but possibly a 125. Heaviest wise 180 is the upper most limit from what Kuhnhausen says. Heavier and the back of the receiver could be busted out from the recoil energy of the bolt. Powder selection also plays a lot with what's useable. 4895 is the military standard powder for M2 Ball rounds. 4064, Varget, basically a medium burn speed / pressure type powder should work. Too quick a burn rate and the gas pulse might be too short in duration to cycle the action. Very long or slow burning powder may cause battering of the receiver because of too long a duration of peak pressure.