ARs: Mil spec vs other?

[6gunsal]

Can someone school me on how mil spec ar15 parts are different/better/more desirable? If you have a mil spec receiver do you have to use the same for the rest of the parts?

Thanks

[gpwasr10]

Can someone school me on how mil spec ar15 parts are different/better/more desirable? If you have a mil spec receiver do you have to use the same for the rest of the parts?

Thanks

Well, how much time you got?

LOL, dimentionally, all of the major, and the vast majority of minor, AR parts-smiths components are interchangeble.

So like my AR has...
Spike's Tactical Lower
Rock River lower parts kit
High Standard A2 butt-stock
DPMS A3 Upper and 20" Hbar barrel assembly
First Samco Plastic Quad Rail
YHM Pictinny Gasblock
one piece gas ring
DPMS Bolt Carrier
BCM MPI Bolt
BCM SOPMOD Bolt Upgrade Kit
MI SP-LP BUIS
Hogue Rubberized Grop

All fit with minor to no fitting required. Rifle has been accurate and flawless.

Now, there are arguments on what makes for the best quality of parts...

But you will need to figure out what your needs are and what your budget allows.

Nice thing about the AR is the whole system is moduler, so any part can be swapped at any time with something else with very little work.

[O.S.O.K.]

I don't even look at this. As GP says, all parts are interchangeble - only Colt has some wierd parts - the rest are pretty standard.

What are you up to? Wanting to build one? If so, I would suggest just getting a good rifle kit and a stripped lower and you'll be good to go. That's what I've done three times - I used del-ton in each case with perfect satisfaction.

[Bluedog]

The only parts that differ in dimension from the mil-spec equivalent are the carbine buffer tubes, and semi-auto bolt carriers.

The semi-auto bolt carrier has a longer relief cut on the underside. Both interchange and do not effect function, although the mil-spec or "full-auto" type is heavier and can be used to tune an over-gassed system.

The mil-spec carbine buffer tube uses an unnecessarily expensive manufacturing process. The commercial tubes are cheaper, but just as good. However, the metal is weaker, and since the inside diameter must be the same, the outside diameter of the commercial tube is larger, as the result of a thicker tube wall. This means mill spec stocks will not fit on commercial tubes, and commercial stocks are sloppy on mil-spec tubes.

Also, mill spec requires MP testing of the barrel and bolt. Other than that, it's just configuration. For instance, a govt. profile barrel is mil-spec, and an H-bar is not. Also, Chrome lining is mil spec, and non cl is not. Etc.

[FunkyPertwee]

I haven't gotten a real AR-15 yet, but all I'm looking for is chromed internals and M4 feed ramps.

[gpwasr10]

I don't even look at this. As GP says, all parts are interchangeble - only Colt has some wierd parts - the rest are pretty standard.

What are you up to? Wanting to build one? If so, I would suggest just getting a good rifle kit and a stripped lower and you'll be good to go. That's what I've done three times - I used del-ton in each case with perfect satisfaction.

I'll second Del Ton, price to performance ratio this is the best AR going... possibly the best "Assault Esque" rifle going.

As far as Chrome lined... I skipped it... no real reason, just figured any ammo I would be shooting would likely be non-corrosive. I did order mine with the M4 ramps though, not sure if this actually effects reliablility of the gun, but mechanically it makes sence that it would.

[Dr_Scholl]

Not this fucking shit again.

[gpwasr10]

Not this fucking shit again.

What? A discussion about rifles on a fucking gun forum... as opposed to bullshit tit for tat "ZOMG they're comming for our guns" and politics?

Man wants to get into ARs and he has questions, last I checked that is what this community was for. Not everyone likes to simply search old threads all night, some people want to interact.

[FunkyPertwee]

What? A discussion about rifles on a fucking gun forum... as opposed to bullshit tit for tat "ZOMG they're comming for our guns" and politics?

Man wants to get into ARs and he has questions, last I checked that is what this community was for. Not everyone likes to simply search old threads all night, some people want to interact.

Especially when all the old threads are gone.

[gpwasr10]

Especially when all the old threads are gone.

That too.

[6gunsal]

Thanks for the explanations guys, you are very helpful.
Dr Scholl can go jump off a sand castle

I'm just tossing around the idea of building an AR right now. The gun budget just got tighter and there are too many flavors to choose from... I might start working on a lower first til I decide what I want. There are so many cheap lowers right now. Leaning towards a middy. Maybe 18 inches? It is hard to say when I've never even used a carbine.

[gpwasr10]

Thanks for the explanations guys, you are very helpful.
Dr Scholl can go jump off a sand castle

I'm just tossing around the idea of building an AR right now. The gun budget just got tighter and there are too many flavors to choose from... I might start working on a lower first til I decide what I want. There are so many cheap lowers right now. Leaning towards a middy. Maybe 18 inches? It is hard to say when I've never even used a carbine.

The 5.56 gets it's lethality from it's high speed... and high speed comes from a longer barrel. I like the 18" a lot... but for ONLY 2" you get to the full 20". I truly believe that the 20" AR platform is the most effective barrel configuration. But you need to figure out what this rifle is for... then design the rifle that best suits your needs. Then buy it in pieces at the best prices oyu can find.

I built this...


For under $650.00 ($639.00).

[6gunsal]

Very nice Gp. My thinking on the barrel length was more along the lines of 20 is too long and wieldy, 16 is short but produces suspect velocities, so 18 must be the happy medium.
Of course I realize that all sizes have their intended uses and and ranges. But I suppose at any given range a higher velocity coming from a longer barrel will always be more desirable.

[Flinter]

I'm just tossing around the idea of building an AR right now. The gun budget just got tighter and there are too many flavors to choose from... I might start working on a lower first til I decide what I want. There are so many cheap lowers right now. Leaning towards a middy. Maybe 18 inches? It is hard to say when I've never even used a carbine.

I remember just a month or so ago I was tossing around the idea of building an AR. I figured that I could take the rest of the year to do it....really research the parts I wanted, use my overtime money so I wouldn't drain the household budget, etc.

Long story short...a month later and all I need is a stock and a rail system of sorts.

I never was very patient.

[AK-J]

I put together a Del-Ton AR for $730 (kit w/ chrome lined barrel + shipping + lower receiver). It's very impressive. So far it has been 100% reliable, and very accurate.



Recently I compared it to a friend's Bushmaster, and the quality of the components don't seem to be nearly as nice as my DTI. And, he paid at least $500 more.

BTW, the 5.56/.233 round was developed to be used in a 20" barrel. However, a shorter barrel is handier. I just figured if I needed something shorter I'd use one of my AK-74s.

[Bluedog]

5.56 does not get it's lethality from velocity. It gets it from bullet yaw and fragmentation. Velocity produces reliable fragmentation with FMJ ammo, but civilians have many other options for increased lethality. These include soft points, hollow points, and even frangible loads. I have a 14.7 w/ perm A1 FH, 3 16 inchers, a 20 inch A1, and a 24 inch 6.5 Grendal. The 14.7 is my favorite.

It wears a Trijicon RX06-10, not shown here.

[Mark Ducati]

What Blue Dog said....

But regarding carbine 4 or 6 position buffer tubes... generally speaking, you can tell visually... the end of a Mil-Spec buffer tube is 90 degrees flat relative to the length of the tube. Commercial tubes are angled at the back...

I bought what I thought was a "mil-spec" flat end tube at a gunshow... bought a MagPul stock and found that it wouldn't fit! It was a flat-ended commercial tube diameter! So they are out there.

Regarding the parts, I don't know why... but I bought some M16 parts from DPMS that were problematic getting them to cycle reliably on my Frankford Arsenal M16 (converted by Olky Arms - 3rd hole drilled)... one of the members here sold me some USGI unused M16 internals (long story as to why he had them), but they were the only ones that ran full auto on my M16... semi, all parts worked, full auto - only Colt USGI worked.... go figure.

Also, I could be wrong... but Mil-Spec parts also have a steel of a better "hardness" if I remember correctly????

[Bluedog]

An easy handling rifle has as much to do with weight and balance as with length, and an AK74 is not all that short. An Ak74 has its uses, but serving in place of an AR carbine is not one of them. Its too heavy and too clumsy. Frankly, I'd choose a 20 inch AR with a light or Govt. profile barrel over the 74 for fast handling.

[Mark Ducati]

One other thing... back to the metal hardness/quality of the steel or aluminum accessories... maybe Daemon can chime in on this one, but I've got a buddy who's a police officer now that served in both Desert Storm 1 and the most recent war in Iraq... he told me that his company would let him use a Beta-C mag if he bought one on his own, but they were strict about not letting him use crappy add on rails or accessories unless they were USGI issue...

I don't know if this is a general military position on the issue or just his unit.

Kind of like the commercial vs. mil-spec stock... only think I can think of is that any stock can break with a buttstock smack to an enemies head, but commercial is supposedly not as durable for combat use???

[Bluedog]

Also, I could be wrong... but Mil-Spec parts also have a steel of a better "hardness" if I remember correctly????

No. There are two types of (non-stainless) barrel steels commonly used. Whichever one is better depends on what kind was used in the favorite gun of the person arguing that his is better and everyone else' s sux. No one can prove, but many claim to know. There is no dispute that one type is harder (and more expensive) but that does not mean there is any actual benefit to using it. Both types are harder than copper and lead.