Metric Vs Inch FAL Questions

[hazmat]

So, I've got this G1 FAL that I'm assuming to be metric, given that it says 'G1' on it and the G1 is a German gun. What with everyone outside the British Commonwealth using metrics and all. That, and all the Canuck, Limey, Aussie, and Kiwi rifles being based on the Brit L1 and it being an inch pattern rifle (or so I'm told). You can see where I could, in fact make that assumption, right? Just checking.

Funny thing happened yesterday, I bought some mags I thought were metric but do not lock up. The funstore had 6 FAL mags, 3 had pronounced mag catches, floorplate lips on the outside of the mag ala the AK, and were labeled 'inch', so I bought the other 3 thinking they were metric, one of them being an Issy 20 rder. I don't see any big differences and the ones I bought are dimensionally similar, and in each case a tad smaller (I checked width and depth with calipers) than the mag that came with the gun, but they just will not go. Externally they look the same. Same mag catches (front and back), same floor plate pattern, same takedown hole placement, but still no go.

First question, are Israeli FAL mags metric or inch?

One of the mags has a "Y" acceptance stamp on the back. Again, no lock up.

Second question, which mag pattern (inch vs metric), if any, will lock up in the other gun?

Given it's a CAI rifle, I'm prepared for a metric upper and an inch lower, or vise versa, hell nothing CAI does surprises me. It would probably save me some $$$ to know up front the differences in the two designs.

So, could all you FAL experts help a brother out?

[imanaknut]

Inch mags have a tang in the front, similar to the AK mag that has the tang in the rear. It fits into an obvious slot in the magwell. The metric mag has a little nub in the front which fits into a small dimple in the magwell.

I have an "inch" rifle and was told either work in it, but the metric mags don't lock in. My guess is an inch mag will not even fit into a metric well.

http://www.centuryarms.com/receivers.htm

[mriddick]

If you look forward into the mag well of the rifle and see a wide slot going from side to side for the mag to lock into you have an inch lower, if it's a square cutout that doesn't reach the sides it's metric. Some inch lower will lock in a metric mag but IMO it's best to buy inch mags as even if a metric locks in you might find out it will fall under recoil of fire.

All Israeli mags I've owned were metric.

All inch mags I've owned also had a floorplate that stuck out at the sides like an AK mag floorplate will, metric mags generally have flush fitting floorplates on the sides. It's usually what I use to ID an inch at a distance at shows.

[Richard Simmons]

Here's a pictorial that might help.

http://www.centuryarms.com/receivers.htm

[imanaknut]

Here's a pictorial that might help.

http://www.centuryarms.com/receivers.htm

Where have I seen that link before???

[hazmat]

So, I looked again at the inside of the receiver and here's a couple of pics.





Going by what the CAI site says, I believe the upper is inch.

Now for my next quandry, can you identify which of the 4 mags pictured came with the gun?





See, that's what has me all kinds of confused. It appears as though the receiver is inch, based on the link. The included mag is metric. But other metric mags won't fit, including 2 (I looked again) Israeli mags.

[deth502]

looks like a metric receiver to me, and definately metric mags.

afa the baseplate thing, there are metric mags out there that have the wide inch baseplates. the south africans converted a shit load of them back in the day for use in their metric rifles.

[mriddick]

I'd just find an inch mag and try it, if it snaps in it's inch and you'll know for sure CAI I believe would take their metric lowers and convert them to inch pattern so while the slot isn't as wide as most inch slots I've seen it's much wider then more metric lowers I've seen.

[Schuetzenman]

Your receiver is cut like an inch, clearly so. That said, Metric mags fit in Inch receivers, all be it with a bit of slop usually. Inch definitely only fit in Inch receivers. The mag that came with your rifle is the one on the far left in my opinion. How can I tell? The feed lips are squashed down. The 3 to it's right are nice and new and their feed lips are correct to spec. Israeli mags are indeed metric. I've got several in my collection of over 60 FAL mags.

The mag lips are part of the cartridge guide system. Your receiver IMO is out of spec and the mag well is limited in depth by the portion of feed lips that are part of the receiver.

Your options are limited. You can bash on the new mags until they feed lips collapse so they fit or you can look for some used mags that have the lips already beaten down a bit. Bash too hard on the mags and they may not feed ammo worth a damn.

Here's a possibility for you. I have lots of used mags, but with good finish on them. If you're interested contact me by PM here on Gunsnet and we can arrange a swap of some of my used mags for your Izzy's. I have an Izzy clone I built that could use a few more Israeli marked mags to go with it.

[Penguin]

Looks to me that your reciver is set up for inch mags. You difinitly have metric mags there though. In theory as others have said metric mags should fit in an inch rifle but inch mags are a no go in a metric. They may or may not feed and posibly fall out though. I have never tested an metric mag in my L1A1's though.

Another of couple of things to look at is is the charging handle a round knob that sticks out of the reciver, or is it a folding lever. The knob is metric, the folding charging handle is inch. Do you rear sights fold forward against the top of the reciver? Is so those are inch, metric ones don't fold as far as I know. Also the gas regulators and front sight blocks are different on inch and metric guns. Is you pistol grip hallow? If so that would be metric. The inch ones don't spear to be hollow though they have a feture so you can fold the trigger gaurd into them for winter use. Also the safetys will be different. The inch ones are bigger and have a part of them that prevents the safety from rotating past semi and into auto. If your bolt has sand cuts it is probably inch as well. Unless it is a para FAL. Inch mag releses are bigger as well. Usally inch don't have an automatic bolt hold open. Most metric guns will. If their are taps on the back of your dust cover those would be inch. Metric ones don't have or need the tabs. Though the metric ones fit on an inch gun fine.

I hope this helps you some what. Some parts interchange between the two so you may have fetures from both. This link may help,
http://50ae.net/metric-vs-inch/

[hazmat]

Thanks for website. It answered a lot of questions. But it also left some unanswered. It would appear as though I've got a frankenFAL. Most of the features scream metric, except when it comes to magazines. I'll try to get some better detailed pics tonight.

[Richard Simmons]

Where have I seen that link before???

Sorry about that. I did a google search and didn't realize it was the same link you had already posted.

[AKTexas]

Penguin that is a good site for Inch vs Metric FAL comparisons. Thanks for the link.

[imanaknut]

The link comparing the L1A1 inch to the metric STG-58 is not really true. Mine is an STG-58, but it is an inch version, with all the mag release parts as shown on that comparison, but the receiver is cut for inch mags, inch pattern disassembly lever, STG fire control lever, STG style knob charging lever, yet virtually all the items shown on the STG-58.

FrankenFAL!!!!

[Penguin]

Glad that web site was usefull. I can take some picks of my SLR's if it will help. Just let me know what to take pictures of. I don't have a metric gun though to compare to.

[hazmat]

Well, I've answered one question definitively. I have a metric FAL. Brought home an inch mag and will not fit into my receiver at all. Not even close. So that begs the question: WTF is going on here?

The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking a call to Century is in order. Maybe they can explain why the rifle will lock in their mag, but no others.

[imanaknut]

Well, I've answered one question definitively. I have a metric FAL. Brought home an inch mag and will not fit into my receiver at all. Not even close. So that begs the question: WTF is going on here?

The more I think about this, the more I'm thinking a call to Century is in order. Maybe they can explain why the rifle will lock in their mag, but no others.

I think you need a metric mag in a metric FAL. That is why the inch will not lock in. (actually that is not a guess, an inch mag will not fit in a metric well, but the metric mag will fit in an inch well, although not as snug as one would want)

[Penguin]

That would be my guess as well. Wish I could find inch mags that easily around here.

[hazmat]

I think you need a metric mag in a metric FAL. That is why the inch will not lock in. (actually that is not a guess, an inch mag will not fit in a metric well, but the metric mag will fit in an inch well, although not as snug as one would want)

That's just it. The three mags I posted pics of are all metric mags. They will fit, although a tad snugly, in the well. They just won't lock up. Trying the inch mag it wasn't even close. Whereas the original 3 would slide in and not lock, the inch one wouldn't even fit the well.

Penguin, they've got 3 other inch mags in stock, condition varies from new-old stock, to get the dremel to cut the rust.

I think tomorrow I'll take the rifle down to the store and see if they've got other mags that will fit. Oh, I'll still call Century, but it might pay off to see if there are other mags that will do the trick.

[sevlex]

You might want to look at the mag catch, it could be out of spec. A little judicious Dremel time on the catch could improve the fit.