Hamas fires rockets defending themselves from mean ciivilians and vicious reporters

[Krupski]

Sorry, I didn't realize English was a second language and that you would miss the finer nuances. Religious bigotry, blood lust, insane disregard for their own people, old fashion greed and hunger for power. Is that simple enough?

Do you really think that's why they do it?

[Oswald Bastable]

May I assume that what you said means "Israel has suffered more over the centuries and therefore deserves to occupy the land they are on" ?

Or do I assume incorrectly?

Given that assumption is the mother of all fuck ups, yes, you do assume incorrectly.

[old Grump]

Do you really think that's why they do it?

I'm just a simple country boy and the simplest answers are usually the most correct. I wouldn't have wrote it if i didn't believe it. There is no high and mighty religious or political philosophy involved. Some people are just evil, not the Muslim people but the leaders of Hamas.

[Oswald Bastable]

Exactly. Skip the preamble and call everyone who refuses to put Israel first a Nazi.



Wart

And who has said anything of the sort in this thread? It's you who's admitted to making up facts to suit your purpose. Awfully "democratic" of you, by the by...a very liberal admission of huffpost stylistic tradition. I'm sure you're very proud of yourself. Feel free to gain tennis elbow patting yourself on the back.

[Warthogg]

Awfully "democratic" of you, by the by...a very liberal admission of huffpost stylistic tradition. I'm sure you're very proud of yourself. Feel free to gain tennis elbow patting yourself on the back.

I have no problem with you fucking Ft Worth sows. Why would you think I object ??


War

[mriddick]

Do you really think that's why they do it?

Ever hear the phrase "they've been killing themselves over there for thousands of years" but then think Israel has only been a country since 1948?

[LAGC]

Ever hear the phrase "they've been killing themselves over there for thousands of years" but then think Israel has only been a country since 1948?

Actually, didn't the Jews and Muslims more or less co-exist peacefully for quite awhile before the State of Israel was created out of that land?

I think peace is very possible, but its going to take some thinking outside the box, and a lot more give and a lot less take on Israel's part.

[mriddick]

Actually, didn't the Jews and Muslims more or less co-exist peacefully for quite awhile before the State of Israel was created out of that land?

I think peace is very possible, but its going to take some thinking outside the box, and a lot more give and a lot less take on Israel's part.

I don't know have, you never heard that phrase either? Normally when people say things like that there's a reason behind it. Maybe we should ask some Armenians about how easy it was to coexsist with the Turks?

I think historically that region has always been fighting, limited resources tend to bring that on. Sure it's not always been jew and muslims fighting, it's been other groups but that's the point of what I've been saying, they will tend to fight regardless. To blame it all on a country that's been around since 1948 is silly at best, it's easy to see they've been fighting for centuries. If it wasn't Jew VS Muslim it would be sunni VS shiite, or oil producer VS non oil producer, north VS south or whatever.... That's the flaw in that argument.

[Ruskiegunlover]

'I think peace is very possible, but its going to take some thinking outside the box, and a lot more give and a lot less take on Israel's part.'.......LAGC

Notice anything on this? Just more typical mouth shit from a liberal who expects everyone but himself to have to pay. In this case, its THE ISRAELIS who will have to do a lot of the giving.....


You guys, don't lower yourselves to this level talking with the boards resident skinheads. You cannot talk common sense or morality to those who have neither. So don't try.

"I have no problem with you fucking Ft Worth sows. Why would you think I object ??" Wartthog

OOOOOOOOOO Oswald, I think you accidently got into someone elses panties......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....

[Roaring Mouse]

I'm just a simple country boy and the simplest answers are usually the most correct. I wouldn't have wrote it if i didn't believe it. There is no high and mighty religious or political philosophy involved. Some people are just evil, not the Muslim people but the leaders of Hamas.

I don't believe for an instant that the leaders of Hamas are evil, I put them on a par with the leadership of Israel; its just that the Israeli's have better PR - any why not, the American taxpayer pays for most of it.

One of the biggest facts the Israelis and their supporters repeatedly overlook is that Israel is the occupying and controlling power, and has oppressed, repressed, murdered, tortured, dispossessed and bullied the Palestinian people for over 50 years. Don't forget that Israel was formed by Europeans who mass migrated to Palestine, illegally in many cases, ran a campaign of terrorism against the UN forces and local Palestinian population, and have ethnically cleansed many areas, stealing Palestinian homes (both Muslim and Christian) and denying the Palestinians the right of return - contrary to international law. It always makes me smile when I hear US or European politicians refer to Israel as a democratic nation; I guess it is if you ignore the 6 million citizens Israel refuses to acknowledge or allow to return, simply because they are not Jewish (i.e. Palestinian refugee = no return, citizen of another country with no link to Israel = welcome "home" to Israel, providing your mother was Jewish).

Hamas call for the destruction of the state of Israel, but it is well known that they are far more pragmatic than that an will accept an equitable solution that will create 2 states and 2 peaceful states at that. That is not to say that Hamas are not a terrorist organisation; any group who deliberately or recklessly target civilians are imo terrorists (i.e. both Hamas and Israel). Evil doesn't come into it; its all about politics.

[mriddick]

I would still maintain they are fighting over the land and it's resources. It wouldn't matter who was on that land, they would still be fighting over it. The fact one group is of a differnet religion only makes it easier to demonize them and attempt for complete destruction of them over simple control. Look to the north to Lebanon, why is Syria and Iran so involved there? There aren't many jews there to fight there, they are fighting because Lebanon has something they want. It's been this way all around the mideast (Iraq and Iran fighting, etc...).

The root of the problem is one group wants the land the other is on. Two states will not exist side by side as long this is the issue (since both want the same thing). It really does come down to who is entitled to the land, who has the claim on it.

[Kadmos]

I don't believe for an instant that the leaders of Hamas are evil, I put them on a par with the leadership of Israel; its just that the Israeli's have better PR - any why not, the American taxpayer pays for most of it.

One of the biggest facts the Israelis and their supporters repeatedly overlook is that Israel is the occupying and controlling power, and has oppressed, repressed, murdered, tortured, dispossessed and bullied the Palestinian people for over 50 years. Don't forget that Israel was formed by Europeans who mass migrated to Palestine, illegally in many cases, ran a campaign of terrorism against the UN forces and local Palestinian population, and have ethnically cleansed many areas, stealing Palestinian homes (both Muslim and Christian) and denying the Palestinians the right of return - contrary to international law. It always makes me smile when I hear US or European politicians refer to Israel as a democratic nation; I guess it is if you ignore the 6 million citizens Israel refuses to acknowledge or allow to return, simply because they are not Jewish (i.e. Palestinian refugee = no return, citizen of another country with no link to Israel = welcome "home" to Israel, providing your mother was Jewish).

Hamas call for the destruction of the state of Israel, but it is well known that they are far more pragmatic than that an will accept an equitable solution that will create 2 states and 2 peaceful states at that. That is not to say that Hamas are not a terrorist organisation; any group who deliberately or recklessly target civilians are imo terrorists (i.e. both Hamas and Israel). Evil doesn't come into it; its all about politics.

Great, another ignorant Brit raised by the Beeb.

Israel essentially offered the right of return when it offered citizenship...it was generally refused by the "Palestinians".

A good 20 to 30 percent of Israels citizenship is non-jewish, with the vast bulk of that Arab. They have full voting and other civil rights (probably better rights than your average Brit come to think of it). They serve in pretty much all levels of government, being approximately 20% of the elected officials.

Even the vast majority of the Palestinians aren't "oppressed, repressed, murdered, tortured, dispossessed and bullied". They all are given legal travel papers, they can seek redress of grievances in Israeli courts, they are allowed to vote for local officials (not nationwide, but municipal), joint police forces give them security, they are allowed to publish newspapers, run tv stations, given access to Israeli hospitals....frankly the bulk of them probably live better than most Muslims in most Muslim nations!

And of course I assume you are unaware of any Palestinian refugee camps anywhere except Israel. BBC tends to gloss over huge camps just a few miles outside of Beirut, Lebanon. Lebanon by the way has barred Palestinians from having Lebanese citizenship...even Israel offered citizenship to those who wanted it! Jordan and Syria also have multiple large camps. None give citizenship, most give little aid that isn't directly red cross or given only to families of the "martyrs".

Just as a side thought, between 1948 and 1967 when the Golan heights, the West bank and the Gaza strip were controlled by Syria, Jordan, and Egypt why didn't those countries attempt to create a "Palestine" for those dispossessed people?

Hamas call for the destruction of the state of Israel, but it is well known that they are far more pragmatic than that an will accept an equitable solution that will create 2 states and 2 peaceful states at that.

Is it "well known"?...doesn't seem too be. Seems to me Hamas took control over the Gaza strip and didn't start building peaceful lives there...they started lining up rockets to fire into Israeli neighborhoods. They were given land for peace and gave no actual peace!

And now you expect Israel to give up the strategic areas of the Golan Heights and the west bank? For what? Closer pads to have rockets launched at them from?

[weevil]

I would still maintain they are fighting over the land and it's resources. It wouldn't matter who was on that land, they would still be fighting over it. The fact one group is of a differnet religion only makes it easier to demonize them and attempt for complete destruction of them over simple control. Look to the north to Lebanon, why is Syria and Iran so involved there? There aren't many jews there to fight there, they are fighting because Lebanon has something they want. It's been this way all around the mideast (Iraq and Iran fighting, etc...).

The root of the problem is one group wants the land the other is on. Two states will not exist side by side as long this is the issue (since both want the same thing). It really does come down to who is entitled to the land, who has the claim on it.

Oh come on now.......that makes way too much sense!


Besides it doesn't jive with the kook's tinfoil-hat conspiracy claims that those evil zionist jooos are plotting to rule the world.


They don't give a ratsass about the Palestinians, arabs, muslims, Hamas, etc....

As has been stated many times by the kooks "they're the enemy of my enemy".


If you try to use common sense, logic, reason, or truth you will simply be ignored by the kooks or they'll switch to a strategy of personal attacks.


Bigots don't want to hear the truth or logic, it just doesn't matter they're still going to hate them dirty Jews.



Hatred and bigotry aren't based on common sense or reason.

[Warthogg]

Actually, didn't the Jews and Muslims more or less co-exist peacefully for quite awhile before the State of Israel was created out of that land?

I think peace is very possible, but its going to take some thinking outside the box, and a lot more give and a lot less take on Israel's part.

Yes to both points.

One of the BIG problems is that peace will cost Israel many millions of dollars. Israel is not going to willingly give up that revenue. (Will cost the Palestenians too but only a fraction of Israel's cost.)

Russia this January and Great Britain more recently have basically told Israel the charade is over. Still....so long as the US continues its blind support of Israel I don't expect anything positive to happen. For peace the US, Britain, France, Russia......must walk into the conference room where the Israelis and Palestenians await, say STFU and tell both parties here's your deal.


Wart

[old Grump]

Ratcrap and moldy armpit hair. I had a long post written in answer to Roaring mouse starting back at 1948 and working forward and then I had a 55 minute power failure. I am not going to rewrite all of that. However to the point of do I think Hamas is evil the answer is yes and no you cannot compare HAMAS to the leaders of Israel. Imagine HAMAS getting voted out of office or of their leaders being indicted and tried for crimes by their own judges. The comparison is ludicrous and I will stop there.

[Warthogg]

Didn't Hamas get voted INTO office ??


Wart

[old Grump]

They certainly did. Want to bet it was a free and fair election?

[Warthogg]

They certainly did. Want to bet it was a free and fair election?

And if I said free and fair then you would search for another problem.



Wart

[old Grump]

And if I said free and fair then you would search for another problem.



Wart

Not at all, I would know that you were fibbing at me.
The Israeli legal system has been hard on corrupt public officials in high office and have tried and convicted several of them. When the public does not like the current regime it votes in a new party and new leader. It will never happen with HAMAS.

[Krupski]

Actually, didn't the Jews and Muslims more or less co-exist peacefully for quite awhile before the State of Israel was created out of that land?

I think peace is very possible, but its going to take some thinking outside the box, and a lot more give and a lot less take on Israel's part.

Disagree (with the bolded part).